In&OutJazz: Hi Mr. Osby. Welcome to Madrid. It is a very pleasure to be here with you. Are you ready for the conversation? I would love to speak with you about your great last project, Minimalism. What can you tell us about the band of your new album? How did you put this band together? What was in your mind?

Greg Osby: I’m very happy about… For me. Yeah, I wanted to have many colors, and many options represented. That’s why I have the women, because I really like the sound of women’s voice combined with my saxophone. It’s a very nice connection, and I wanted to use that color. Especially with, you know, the Italian, the woman from Italia, you know, she has (Alessandra Diodati) the Italian sound. And then Viktorija, she’s from Lithuania but she lives here in Spain so long, so she has another approach. So that gives me many options. And then my accordion player, João Barradas, he’s from Lisbon. So, he’s a very popular classical and jazz accordion player. Very unusual. So, to have that sound, it’s just so many different, I have choices. Tal Cohen… And… I’m really proud of, you know, the band. I like to find young musicians who are not well-known, and then cultivate, you know, their talents and kind of bring in, bring them into my world. And so, it’s very difficult to keep musicians this way, because one day nobody knows them. Now everybody knows them, and it’s hard for me to get them. But the advantage is there’s no shortage of young musicians. They’re everywhere. So, I have, you know, I mean, in every country. It’s not even exclusive to United States or New York. Every country has some of the top musicians, because the world is smaller now. We’re connected, you know, via the Internet. So, everybody’s learning the same things. Everybody’s developing faster. So, it’s a good time in that respect. Now, in the other respect, it’s more difficult, because there’s so many musicians, that it’s difficult to find quality places to play. Because some of the unknown musicians will take less money. And so, the promoters want you to take the less money. And they don’t want to pay you what you’re worth. I say, man, I’ve been out here more than 40 years. I can’t accept that, you know, I have a group of people that I want to treat well. So, it’s a, you know, we have to dance. We have to do the dance. But musically speaking, artistically speaking, I’m very, very happy with the recording. It’s been received well. People like it. And it said what I wanted to say. You know, the album is basically a representation. The album represents what I would like music to sound like in 2024. It’s kind of an evolution, my personal evolution, and also the things that can go into music. My primary source of inspiration for this kind of music would be Wayne Shorter, because he continued to grow for his whole career. He never stopped. That’s my model, my “modelo”, just to keep moving. I learn, I meet beautiful people, I eat great food, I travel, read books. All this goes into the music. Nothing goes to waste. And for the future, I just intend to… I have some other projects that are almost complete. I have an organ trio. I have a chamber group with five female voices. And then I have another acoustic group with my acoustic quartet with string quartet. I did a record like this before, but now this is 30 years later. So, it’s going to show growth. And I collaborate freely with other interesting musicians. I’d like to play other people’s music. I don’t want to be exclusive only to my music because it’s lazy, but it’s also… It prohibits growth. You know, there are many people that sound good playing their own music. But when you hear them play with somebody else, they don’t sound so good. Because they become spoiled. And that’s not the way. So, if somebody calls me and I think their music is challenging and interesting, I’ll do it. Even if it’s not the greatest conditions, I’ll do it because I want to see if I can do it. I want to see if I will sound good with other people. I’ve always been that way. And it doesn’t have to be jazz or swinging. It can be anything. I mean, it can be folk music, it can be hip-hop, it can be salsa, reggae, calypso, whatever. But if it’s interesting, I say “hmm, let’s try it”. I think that’s a good way to be because then I won’t get stuck in the same place. I don’t want to sound the same way that I sounded 20 years ago. So, when you hear me next time, I’ll be totally different. That’s my goal, to keep moving. A work in progress.

And what is the evolution of your sound? From your first experience with M-bass and…?

Yeah. Well, you know, when I moved to New York, I was primarily a bebop saxophonist like everybody else. But I soon realized that that wasn’t satisfying to me. Because I was playing with the language of Charlie Parker. It was already old at that time. I was a young person. I wanted to do something that reflected what was in my head, which was a more advanced train of thinking, something that’s more inclusive of different resources. So, I actively looked for other people who thought the way I did, who see the world as I see it. So, when I met Steve Coleman, we connected. And so, we found other musicians to start this collective. So, we can experiment and try new things with no restrictions.

Wow, yeah!

Those were very good years. We did a lot of work, a lot of meetings, tried many things, did some tours. But everything has its place. So, after doing that for some years, I said, now I have to be independent. I have to do my own thing. And so, we went in different directions, which is natural. That’s called growth. But as I said, I like to talk to people and find out what they’re into. Maybe they can recommend a book. Maybe they can recommend a film or a director. Or maybe they can recommend a recipe. New food, new ingredients, spices. All these things go into the recipe, the creative recipe. And I like to talk to older musicians, too. Virtuosos, masters, maestros. Folk music, indigenous music. I talk to them through interpreters. And then I maybe find some of the classical music of that era, of the country, and I’ll analyze it. Not so I can play it verbatim, but so that I can use it when necessary. You know, you build a big library of references. It’s important. Because if you don’t do this, it’s almost like being a chef that only has three ingredients. I want to have, you know, basil, oregano, dill, pepper, salt, paprika. I want to have big options, not just pepper, salt. Also, it’s like a painter who only has two colors. I want to have the, you know, kaleidoscope, the spectrum. You know. Because internally, there’s just something that prevents me from repeating myself. If I do something the same way, I almost get a headache. So, it’s very important for me to have many things to work with. So that I can take a different direction tonight than the next night I can “let’s try this”, “let’s try something I never did before”. Maybe it works. “Oh, it didn’t work!” So, I would like to see this attitude more commonly amongst contemporary musicians. I want to see them not being afraid to take a chance. Because music is moving slower now. It used to move faster. Because musicians didn’t care what people thought. But now people are being more conservative.

And you’re not.

Yeah. And we don’t have the big record labels that are developing the artists. And we don’t have a lot of the elder masters who are teaching the young people the way. So, a lot of young musicians are moving slower because they don’t know what to do. So that’s another thing that I like to do is to make myself available to musicians. You know, with my experience and my connections, my contacts, and also my opinion, if they ask for it. I don’t impose. But if they want information, it’s free. Just, you know…, and I think that’s important too.

You have recorded with Blue Note Records. But, how’s creating your own record label like? How’s that experience?

Okay, so of course, I was on Blue Note Records for 16 years. Before that, I was on a small label based in Munich called JMT. It was distributed globally through Polygram, so that’s more or less 20 years with major labels. So, in 2006, I was on my, I think, one of my last tours with the Grateful Dead. And I saw the people in the audience taping. And I asked the bassist, Phil Lesh, I said, “man, these guys are taping your show”, and he said, “oh, they’ve been taping us since 1967, we allow them to tape so that they could trade the recordings”. I said, “hmm, that’s a really good idea”. So I put 15 live recordings of my band on my website, and people were downloading and making live CDs. And so, the sales went up because people were grateful that I gave them these free music, and so they bought my CD. But I was thinking, I was saying, wait a minute, so Blue Note owns this CD, and they own all my CDs. And I don’t own any of them. But it’s my music. So that’s when I decided to start my own label. I said, man, “I need to, you know, be in charge of my own destiny, make my decisions”. And so I got a big artistic grant. And I handpicked some musicians around New York who I really respected. They were younger, but they couldn’t get a record deal. So, I started my label, Inner Circle Music.

Yeah, yeah.

And we’ve been going since 2007 and still going. At one point, I had 72 artists. It was too much. I had students, and I had interns working for me, and it was just, it took all of my time and energy. So, I had to reduce things so that I could control it. Because even today, you know, every day I’m getting emails with full CDs and productions and…, through social media. “Listen to my music”. I can’t listen to it. Even though some of it is amazing. So, but it’s, right now, it’s a labor of love. Because I’m not doing it for profit. All my artists, they own their work 100%. I just help them to find distribution. Touring, promotion, publicity. And I answer their questions. So, I’m kind of the big brother. And they have the label that we all can exist under. But I don’t want any percentage of anybody’s work. That’s the problem with the labels. They basically own you. So, I don’t like that idea. I don’t like that idea. Independence. Controlled independence with structure and with a plan. And then you can do great things. So that’s continued to go. And ever since the pandemic, I was teaching a lot on Zoom. Sometimes seven or eight students a day. Global. International. And not many saxophone students. I had the vocalists and pianists and drummers and every instrument. And so that still takes up a great deal of my time. Because I like to teach. Because I have a problem with the way music, in particular improvised music, is taught in schools. I don’t like classrooms talking about music. I like one-on-one. Mentors, apprenticeship. But therefore, I don’t have the distraction of other students who don’t really care, who don’t practice, who don’t give a shit. So, if I can be one-on-one with somebody who has experience, much older, and is concentrated. I think that’s just the best way. You know? So I tell the students, you know, “come with many questions and we can just go”. And they can record it so they can refer to it later. It’s good. It works well. Man, it’s so relaxing here! Really!

And who are your artistic and musical inspirations?

My inspiration are the musicians who came before me that worked out an identity in their music, that developed a sound and an approach that details their individuality. So that as soon as they begin to play, you know who it is. Thelonious Monk, as soon as he plays…, Bud Powell, Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Duke Ellington…, as soon as they begin to play, you know who it is. These are the people that I like. Because it’s very personal and distinctive. It’s like there’s nobody else. You know. And when Sarah Vaughan sings one note, or Ella Fitzgerald or Shirley Horn or, you know, Paul Desmond, you know who these people are. As soon as Chet Baker plays, you know who it is. As soon as Miles Davis plays, you know who it is. So, I like identification.

And in first person, what do you say about your identity, like a musician, like a composer?

I would define my identity as somebody who is restless, who cannot stay in the same place. Somebody who keeps moving. So, you don’t know what I’m going to do. So, when people come to see me, I want them to be surprised. The only thing that’s constant is my approach. But my environment, the platform, the colors, they will be different. Because I need that, you know, because if it’s the same, I can’t play. So, I’m a very curious person. I don’t like to not know something. So, if something is of interest to me, I will do the research. I will investigate, I will analyze, extract, and put into my music. I think it’s not responsible to just like it and do nothing. I think the responsible thing to do is to find out how it works, why it works and if it can work for me. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Yeah, I understand. How would you describe the experience of learning from the new generations? What’s your relationship with the young cats like?

it’s just that I’m hopeful that more musicians will not be afraid to try something new. And I’m hopeful that more musicians will not be dismissive of things that are not in their world. We have to embrace. We have to be inclusive instead of exclusive. You know what I’m saying? “That’s kind of interesting, let me check it out, that’s the best attitude”. So that means we can all move forward together. Otherwise, music is compartmentalized. You know, category. We have to get rid of the categories. Because the categories are a design, you know, for commerce, for market, to sell the music. But, you know, great musicians never call their music jazz or bebop or anything. It’s just my music from my heart and I hope you enjoy it. If you don’t enjoy it “lo siento”. Maybe you’ll enjoy the next one. You know? We can’t get discouraged. Because the point is to make people feel the same way we feel when we wrote the music. So, I want you to have the same experience as me. When I wrote Minimalism, it was too much. It was kind of overkill. Sensory overload. So, I had to take things out. That’s why I call it Minimalism. I had to… “Okay, now it’s right”. Because it was many years since I did my last recording. So, I had too many ideas. And so it was just too much. I wanted to tell a story so people could say “oh, that’s nice”. And I want them to look forward to the next song. Not like one song and enough. So that’s why I had to… they say… I don’t know how to say it in Español, “trim the fat”, take off the excess.

Take off, trim the fat. In Spanish is quitar, cortar la grasa.

And it takes a great deal of honesty. Because most musicians think that everything they do is great. But I said “I like it, but I don’t think everybody’s going to like it”. Because I’ve done many experimental recordings and eclectic recordings where I love it. But the writers, the people, and other musicians don’t understand it. Because I’ve been there working with this for a long time. So, for Minimalism, I wanted to make something that appeals to people who maybe don’t even like this music. And I did a play test at different schools, “escuelas”, and just played and asked the students, so what do you think? And some of them, you don’t like it. I said “okay”. I’m doing the right thing. Because I’ve done that before and they just sit there. You know. So, I think I’m in the right direction.

Spain feels different now than it felt like 30, 40 years ago when I first came here.

What do you mean with this?

Before, I felt more like a stranger. People would, I don’t know if they had much experience with American black people, you know. But now, there are a lot of African people here.

The last time you stayed here, four years ago, near the pandemic, maybe.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the time before, oh, one significant time, I came here. And I got here early in Madrid, and I went to sleep at the hotel. And when I woke up at noontime, I asked the people at the front desk, I said, is the restaurant open, or is there somewhere nearby where I can eat? And the whole hotel lobby went silent when I started to speak. And then I asked the woman, I said, “Oh, I’m sorry”. I said, “I’m sorry, did Trump win the election?”, and she said “sí, señor”. It was election day. And I was like, “oh”. Election day, okay. Because I voted, and then I went to the airport and came to Madrid. Because I knew Hillary was going to… I just knew it. I just, and as soon as I spoke English, everybody’s… It was, that was a very long four years. And it still hasn’t ended, but I don’t want to talk about that.

Indeed! What a life! Tell us a little bit about the touring experience back in the day.

See, back when I started, you know, we would do a run and we would do maybe, you know, four or five, maybe more cities in every country. You know. In Italy, you know, it would be Verona, Firenze, Roma, Milano, Bologna, you know, all over the place, you know, Germany, Berlin, Hamburg, Salzburg, you know, all, you know, Frankfurt, then come to Spain and, you know, Zaragoza, down south, Granada, Jaen, like little towns, you know, even, you know, all over, everywhere, you know, Madrid, Barcelona. And so, you could get a feel for the country. And now we’re bouncing all over the place. And it’s so exhausting, you know, all those flights, airlines up and down, then sometimes it’s delayed, then you miss the connection, then you miss the concert, or your bags don’t arrive. And that really messes with me psychologically, because I can’t get on the stage with the clothes that I wore on the airplane, with sneakers and, you know, I respect the audience too much, and I want to look nice. You know, all the people that came before me, they showed the audience respect, and now, I don’t want to sound like an old man, but a lot of the young musicians, they wear the same clothes they wear on the street. You know, they look like Kurt Cobain, you know, with holes and dirty, you know, and hair… like, “oh, my God, come on, man”. You know what I mean. If I’m paying, you know, dinero, I want first class, I want top, you know, because I paid. I worked hard. You know, don’t come, you know, the clothes look like this. You know, so, and I try to coach my young musicians and tell them, they say, “oh, I want to be comfortable”, and I say, “if you can be comfortable a little bit and look nice, you don’t have to look like, you know, you’re playing football, you know, you don’t wear sport clothes on stage, you know”. Look at Duke Ellington. Duke Ellington was beautiful. You know, just, it doesn’t have to be, you know, just.

Do you think that it is more difficult to tour right now?

Yeah, it definitely is more difficult now.  But, see, the other thing, say, for instance, we were traveling around in Italy and, you know, every town had a festival. They had these, these churches that, you know, were ruins. They would make a festival, you know, in the piazza. They would put the speakers and the stage and make a festival. So, you didn’t have to travel far, maybe one, two hours for a festival, you know. But now, there’s no money, so we have to fly everywhere. Man, by, after one week on the road, I feel like an old man. You know, I am an old man.

But with the young spirit!