JD ALLEN INTERVIEW
Part I
We were fortunate enough to catch up with JD Allen during one of his visits to Madrid. The saxophonist, currently based in NYC, frequently tours across Europe and is usually joined by a solid trio featuring Sebastián Chames on piano, Rubén Carles on bass, and Juanma Barroso on drums. This quartet, by the way, recently released an album titled Punto de Encuentro.
On this occasion, they were in the middle of their now traditional residency at the legendary Café Central. We had the chance to drop by at the end of their second set on a Monday at midnight and share an intimate and insightful conversation with JD, in which he spoke openly about his vision of music, his current projects, and other equally inspiring reflections.
The interview will be published in two parts. Here we present the first one—and we’ll soon announce the release of the second.
JD Allen: I’ll be truthful and honest.
In&OutJazz: That’s what we want, man. That’s definitely what we want.
Okay, you might get that hahaha.
Oh that’s awesome. Because yeah, it’s a real pleasure to have the opportunity of interviewing you for…
Oh man, thank you for considering me.
For the journal, In&OutJazz.
I haven’t done an interview in a while…, so this, I think this is the first one in a couple of years actually.
But it’s going to be a short one for sure, so don’t worry, it’s not going to take long.
Oh, no problem.
But yeah, I’m José Cabello…
Nice to meet you.
One of the members of In&OutJazz. We’re up to 15 collaborators working to give a shoutout to all you artists out there that are pushing the edge.
Pushing the edge? Wow!
Yeah man, and actually your name stands out significantly.
Really?
Yeah! You’ve been uh finding a pretty intense and particular way of expression. I’ve heard your last record man and it’s…
Okay, oh thank you.
I think you put it out just at the beginning of this month, right?
Yeah, the most recent one, yeah, yeah. There’s a film attached to that also…
That’s The Dark, the Light, the Gray and the Colorful.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it was all things at the same time. It was crazy, I could hear the dark, I could hear the light, I could hear the colorful too. It was such an experience.
Oh thank you, thanks man, I appreciate you.
Yeah, but first of all before we get too intense in the matter I’d like to know if you enjoy your time in Madrid, if you enjoy playing with these musicians that always take you in.
Yeah, those are my brothers!
With Sebastián Chames, Juanma Barroso, Rubén Carles. So could you tell us a little bit about your time here in Madrid and with them.
I do. I enjoy the light. The light here in Madrid is beautiful. Soft in a beautiful way. And I don’t know, Madrid… I just actually, before I came I was in Paris for a little bit. I love Paris also. Madrid is a warmer feeling, you know. People are kind, at least to me. And the light, the light is beautiful here, I don’t know. Something about the light, man.
Yeah, it definitely has to do with the with the title of your record so…
Okay, yeah, that’s an interesting title in regards, because there isn’t a tune on the album named that way…
I know yeah, that’s it yeah. You went directly to a title that doesn’t have…
Any song, not on that album anyway.
But yeah, what’s the meaning of that record? I bet everyone has found the title as well as every tune very provoking and deep. What’s the meaning?
Oh, actually, it’s about flowers. The album is about flowers and as I said earlier, it’s attached to a film by a moving-image maker who’s also a producer and director in London named Reece Ewing. The concept of the album or the thought process behind the album is about flowers and black male bodies, you know.
Yeah, what got you into this topic?
Uh, well my friend Reece…, he has a moving-image work of flowers in itself. He was kind enough to show me the work that he has.
Great, man.
And it was really about you know when we look at flowers we look at it for the beauty of it. But, at least speaking for myself, I’ll notice it but I’ll turn her away without really taking the time to look at it and to appreciate it and to love it. And then to get past the feeling of it just being something that’s beautiful but because actually flowers in itself is something that helps the ecosystem.
Oh, totally.
So it’s kind of all the…
Before the oxygen was good…
Exactly!!
It was all their task, man.
That’s true, that’s true. Now how it links up to the black male body perspective, at least coming…, and from my viewpoint, is just being looked at and thought of in a sense of… you know, people read your face and they assume certain things. So, it’s kind of…, it’s about that more or less. So if you get a chance…, I’ll send the film to you, maybe you get a chance to see the film. There’s moving images of flower and then there’s male figures doing movement and it’s interesting because the flower is just a subject you know. So, that’s the music that goes along with the film.
Cool man, cool. Would you highlight anything from the musicians that play in the record with you?
Would I highlight anything?
Yeah, sure. I mean I guess a lot of things but would you highlight something…
Meaning like something that I like?
Some aspect you would yeah you would say “man, these guys worth it for sure”.
Oh yeah I mean…
If I’m not wrong we’re talking about two bass players….
Two basses, one drum and the saxophone. Just the…, I guess it’s about space, understanding space. This album in particular compared to the last one I did, I did a previous recording called This, and I had a band in London so that was electronics, drums and saxophone, so that was more…, that was a lot more dense. But this one is in particular spread out and spacious.
Yeah, I could hear that yeah.
They did a great job you know, it was tough. I mean I think we recorded like five albums that day.
Oh, shit man, look at that.
We did a lot of recording, a lot of recording.
And how do you approach the compositions in this particular project? Now you were talking about space. How did you think about the parts? Was it all improvised?
No, no, no there’s music to it. There’s a thought process. As I was saying earlier I think differently about music these days. There was a series of tone roles, there was some chord changes and then there was some elements of spontaneous improvisation but it was all mix mixed together. Those are more like sound templates, that’s kind of how I thought about it. I gave them a template of what to do and we reacted to it. While we were filming, there was the film…, the film was being shown so we were watching the film while we were playing.
Oh, beautiful man, beautiful.
But it isn’t something that’s “okay, this is a song structure, a certain amount of bars and solo…”, anything like that. So, yeah, I kind of I find myself venturing off more into that, you know, more or less than having a set tune.
Yeah, did you guys do more takes at all? Was it just one take each?
No, I don’t do takes.
Is it everything together?
No, I don’t record like that. I do sets. I record the album, we play the whole album and we take a break and we play the whole album again, take another break, play the whole album again. So, it’s actually like a live recording. And then I go back and find the best situations.
And you guys, I guess you guys chopped the recording.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I found the things that worked together for this particular situation. There’s another type of element to it that you haven’t heard. I don’t know if that would be heard. That’s much different. You know, we were doing some stuff where we were swinging and some things that were spacious, some things we changed, some things we were out, you know, just trying things.
Yeah, cool. So, tonight we got the chance to hear you play in a live setting. What role do you think the audience plays in your life?
I don’t know.
You could extend that to another question. Who do you play for? Or are you playing for yourself? Are you playing for the musicians you gather? Are you playing for some force beyond?
Some force beyond.
Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, yeah. Or are you playing for the audience?
I don’t know. I’m sure I’ve been trying to work on this answer for a while and I don’t want to seem selfish, but I actually play for myself. I play for my sanity, you know, I play for my life. It’s a safe space, playing music. When I get up there and play or if I’m practicing or, fortunately enough it’s a space where I feel safe, you know, I feel it’s me. So, I hear, I see the audience and I acknowledge them to the best of my ability to really, it’s just, I feel it’s a safe space just to be expressive, you know.
Has it always been like that?
Yeah. Yeah.
When did you start playing? When did you start?
I started when I was nine years old, yeah.
Music was around before that?
My mother was a singer, is a singer, was a singer. She used to sing professionally and we used to…, me and my sister, I have two younger sisters, we had a singing group and we used to do a lot of singing when I was a kid and I just picked up an instrument and started playing and that’s how I made friends.
Was it at first sight, the saxophone or?
No, I played the clarinet.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I wanted to be a classical clarinetist.
So how was your first contact with, with music at all? Was it classical? Was it?
I was singing first and then, and then it was.
What kind of context?
What type of singing?
Yeah.
Oh, I’m from Detroit, Motown.
Oh, yeah.
I was singing all the Motown tunes.
Loving it, loving it.
And two-part harmony and stuff like that.
Awesome.
I was in third grade and at that time in Detroit they had music programs in the inner city schools and a music teacher came to the class and said “does anyone want to play an instrument?” And I raised my hand.
You raised your hand.
But this is the, this is the kicker. So, he said “there’s two instruments left: there’s a clarinet and there’s a trumpet”. So, me and my friend at the time, I can’t even remember his name, we ran after class to the, to the music instruments, right? And I was going for the trumpet actually, but he beat me to the trumpet. So, the only thing left was the clarinet. So, I took the clarinet.
That’s how it started.
Yeah, I started saxophone when I was about 13 or 14 years old. It was clarinet before.
Look at that. What are your biggest influences at the moment right now in this?
Right now?
Yeah, right now. Like these, lately actually. Like what are you, what are you listening to these days?
Oh, man.
If you’re listening…, in fact, it can also be a non-musical influence. Is it, I mean, is there food, is there literature?
Well, today, well, that’s a great question. I got a chance to see a lot of Picasso pieces while I was here.
Oh, yeah, so you’re definitely enjoying your time here.
I’m enjoying my time and seeing.
And not doing just, you know, foolish things.
Yeah, just so that was my practice for the day. I was like “let me check out, you know”, in the museum they had Dalí, they had the cubism and things like that. But in terms of music, I mean, I listen to the Titans, Coleman Hawkins, Sonny Rollins.
The basis for us all, man.
I listen to some of my comrades, Immanuel Wilkins, I like him, James Brandon Lewis.
Oh, look at that.
A lot of people, probably the same people you like, you know.
Totally.
But you know, I, I, I listen strange now. Like I, I’ll do it like, you know, you taste a little bit of food here, you taste a little bit of food there. So, I listen a little bit and go somewhere else.
Oh, so you don’t go to the whole record?
I’ll check out a record, but it’s not something where…, not like it used to be where I was just eating it as much as possible. It was just, I don’t know. I feel differently about music these days, man. I don’t, I don’t know if it’s…
Yeah, I’d like to, I’d like to know more about that because you’ve mentioned it, mentioned it just twice. And I guess I’ll have to interview you in a couple years or months to see how that idea matures or not.
I have yet to really represent myself the way I want and know I can in a live situation. Albums are a bit easier because you can, you know, you can kind of hone in with a group of people, but in a live situation, I feel I have yet to really represent at least what I know I can do, you know? So, I want to move towards that. I don’t know if that’s a free or, I don’t want to say free, but more of an open situation. I’m thinking about, especially since I’ve done these films, maybe getting into maybe creating my own film type of situation behind me to go along with the music.
Oh, wow.
That’s something that I have a fantasy for. I think, you know, I really liked, I really love writing for moving images. You know, it makes sense to me if that’s possible.
Yeah, that sounds amazing.
I saw Lauryn Hill recently and she had a moving image thing behind her and it was so powerful and it just really connected with the music, you know? So, I don’t know, man, I’m not at odds with music, but I am in a way. It’s not so much that anymore. It’s not so much a good solo or, you know, I gotta figure out where I want to go.
I like it. I like it though. It sounds cool.
I’m trying, thank you.
Would you, would you tell us if you know it? Maybe you’ve not even thought about it, but would you, would you hand us out some of the questions you’re, you’re growing inside of you? It ain’t have to be regarding music or, you know… What real questions are guiding you?
You really want to hear it? Okay. I’m fine with sharing it if you want to hear it.
I mean, for sure, man. I mean, I guess I would totally say that, I would state that, what guides human beings are questions rather than answers, right?
Wow, okay. That made Plato famous.
For sure, for sure. You, you look for answers, right? But, but the real motor inside is, is a question always. So yeah, I’d like to know if there is anything around this matter.
I think I just want to make sure that I don’t run out of time. You know, I want to get to, I want to make sure that I don’t run out of time. I wanna get to…, I wanna make sure…, I would like to make something beautiful, undeniable. Not for the sense of validation, but just… I’ve, we all sacrifice things doing this, you know? Sometimes it’s family, it’s love, it’s money and life, you know. I just want to make sure I don’t run out of time and I really achieve what I believe I’m supposed to do. So that, that’s been on my mind. Time. Time, you know. I don’t know if that’s practicing a lot or not wasting time and just doing exactly what I want to do and what I feel and representing myself to the best of my ability you know. So, that’s been…, that’s the question. Will I get to it? Will it…? At one point would it be like “okay, I understand why I went through this shit”? Like okay, you know.
Yeah.
I don’t know maybe not, I don’t know if you ever get to it? So mortality I guess I’m kind of going through that.
Man thanks a lot for all the humble answers.
Okay, cool I hope I wasn’t too dark you know.
No but, thank you a lot man, thank you a lot for sharing…
Thank you man, I enjoyed this.
All these answers and all this stuff you shared with us. And yeah…
Thanks man. And you! You’re a musician. So, man you know, how are you fine in the music? How do you find the quest?
Yeah I’ll say…, I mean I’d say I find people that are leading and people that are following, you now.
Okay.
I’ll be always down to follow, man. I mean I guess there will come a time where I’ll like to do my thing. But for now I’m just happy following man.
Okay.
Listening to great people, you know. You were talking about the titans but I don’t know I can see a friend right now that was around…, Félix Rossy, you know. We’re all… I mean there’s there’re people around man, there’re people around that worth being heard, you know. And so I’d say I’m thankful for the opportunity of loving music, having been in touch with music since I was born and having had the time to thing about it in a deep way. So I would say we have a mystery in our hands. I’d say we’re talking about serious stuff, you know, so I wouldn’t state anything that hasn’t been stated before you know or I mean I’m just loving the fact that there’re people that I want to give a shout out to because you guys are you know, you guys are hip.
Oh yeah, okay.
And I’m excited, you know.
Yeah. Do you find in yourself that you want to lead or are you waiting to lead?
I mean, I guess I want to lead in a way, but I don’t know which way is that, you know. But, musically speaking, I love to play man, I love to play, I love to listen to people play and I love to listen while I play. That’s the thing that I love the most yeah.
Yeah, and how and how old are you again?
I just turned 24, man.
Okay, don’t ever lose that, man. What you gotta do is you gotta protect that. That’s a good thing because you know, sometimes you can find that feeling…, I always ask it because I want to…, I want to hear and remember…. I feel that also is different now but in a way but I remember that feeling, like that effervescence. Don’t lose it and if it’s in you to lead, lead, you know. That’s thing I have like playing in bands like…, this is the part I hate about…, I mean, not hate…. When I play in bands like…, I play and then I think about “oh you should do it this way, you should do it this other way…” It’s not that I can’t follow but I’m always thinking like “oh if you…, if they just arranged it this or that way”, you know, and it gets in the way and it makes you… But if it’s in you to lead, lead. And if you’re a great follower then that does indicate being a great leader, you know. Do you write music also?
I’ve been writing for a while yeah. But you know I’ve met a couple musicians that are writing in a way that I like better than what I do so…
What do you mean writing better than what you are able to write?
No… I guess I feel like they get to a better fountain that is just flowing and glowing, you know. I guess they get to a more grounded and rounded tune and where you feel like “man this…”, either if it’s just sheet music they hand out or the memo or whatever you hear, that is something already. You hear… and you know by just reading the first couple of bars. You can say “man, this…”, I mean you can…, I could give you this tune and you would…
Oh …, and I can mess it up hahahaha.
Oh, no I tell you man. I’m honored to play with a couple musicians that are writing in this way and that I feel like I want to learn with them, you know. I’m always, I am the youngest…
Yeah, I’ve been that too!!!
Out of three brothers and yeah and you know I used to play tennis with the middle brother one and he used to beat me always, you know. But that’s the way I’ve been learning all my life.
Okay, okay.
I guess that’s the reason why I’m a better follower than I am a leader, you know. But in this case man I found people that are writing music in a way where that fulfills me right now. And I by playing their music and trying to understand it, studying it in a way, you know, getting to know the changes, the melody well so you never get lost, even though there are, you know as music is right now, tons of time signature changes and loads of atonal harmony and stuff but that’s cool, you know. So I’m finding my way through playing the music of people that are, for me they do worth it. So yeah, very, very excited for whatever’s coming.
Do you feel you were born to play music?
I feel I was born to be with the music, yeah.
I feel like I…
I mean, I don’t necessarily…, I wouldn’t kill anybody…
Oh no, you can’t do that.
For the sake of playing, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I’d say I would never imagine a live without notes popping out in my mind or…
You were born, yeah.
Being in love with that melody there or just loving to reach happiness through music. Because I guess…, and this is something I’ve learned now for a while but you can get to happiness through a lot of ways but they’re not infinite I guess, but music is one of them for sure. Music is a bridge to whatever is up there, you know. So, I mean I definitely think that, so…
That’s great. You put happiness in there, man. Because I got to it, because it wasn’t happy…, it was just a healthier way of expression. Because I was always quiet as a child and like I said I made friends like that, through music. And I don’t know, happiness was never something I even thought about which is… Damn I feel good!!! You just made me think about something. I saw something today, oh I saw a comedian in it from the States Damon Wayans, he was talking about…, he’s older now and he was talking about “I stopped chasing happiness because it’s fleeting”, and he said “I’ve learned how to be content and happiness moved right next door”. And I was like “oh, shit”.
Wow…
Content. Sometimes you know…, that’s a scary word especially in the States when you…, content… people feel like they want you to be always like… But happiness in terms of music…
Yeah, definitely. I wouldn’t approach happiness in a romantic way but where you ride a horse towards you don’t know where, you know. I’d say happiness is in the small things, you know. It’s in everyday life, it’s even in suffering, I mean… So, because life…, I mean I guess whatever happiness is has to involve everything.
But tell me this, is happiness major or minor? That’s the question.
Major or minor? But, musically speaking?
Yeah, you got two triads. Which one is happiness? Major or minor?
I’d say it’s augmented, man hahaha.
Hahaha. Oh, shit, I like you man.
Augmented, sharp ninth.
Yeah, yeah.
You got the flat third too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah why not. That’s deep man.
Man, it was a pleasure talking to you.
Oh man, I’m enjoying man. Thank you, it was a pleasure, you gave me a good energy, man. I appreciate that.
Oh, me too.
Your joy woke me up a bit, oh yeah I remember that, yeah.
It was great.
Yeah, brother, thanks. I look forward to playing with you, man.
Oh, I’d love to, thanks man.
