In&OutJazz: Alright, Or Bareket Quartet in town. We’re having Godwin Louis and Or himself here with us. What a real pleasure for us! We’re In&OutJazz, an independent journal with its base in Madrid. We like to focus on you guys and all the artists out there that are pushing the edge musically. And we’re really looking forward to this conversation. So, we’re really thankful for the fact that you guys accepted. And also, we know you’ve been here for a couple of days now at Café Central, having your residency here. So, we’re really thankful that Café Central has been supporting you guys too. I’m gonna go ahead and kick out the first question. I’d like to know how you guys are doing and if you’re enjoying your time here in Madrid so far.

Or: Yeah, Madrid is, for me, one of my favorite stops on the tour.

Nice.

It’s great to be here with the audience here, great atmosphere, we like the food. We like being able to play in one same place for three nights. A lot of the other stops on the tour are for just one night. So, it’s nice to kind of settle in tour for a few nights in one place.

Right. You’re liking the city. Because you guys have been in town for a couple of times now, right?

Godwin: Yeah, I’ve been here many times. Great to be here supporting this Maestro, Or. Yeah, here for Or.

Yeah, totally. You just mentioned the audience. I was, in fact, about to ask you guys about that. I want to ask you guys to be real honest here. What’s your perception of the audience here in Madrid? And yeah, you can be critical too. I mean, I like that too.

Or: I think the audience is great. I feel like they are, I feel like they are listening without a lot of preconceptions. What I feel that’s unique in Madrid and in Spain in general is I feel like people are really listening for the energy and the vibe and the emotion of the music. Whereas in other places, audiences might have some more of an agenda, of like what is this kind of music or that kind of music and why do you play this and not that.

Doing some analysis maybe.

A little more. And here, even though the audience is informed and aware, they’re able to listen to music that can be very abstract. But they’re still very open and I enjoy that. That’s right, isn’t it? What do you think?

Godwin: Well, I mean, this city has a lot of great musicians. So, I think.

Or: Right, the local scene’s great.

Godwin: It’s one of those local scenes so we don’t expect anything less than people being aware of music because they get great music here.

Or: Right.

That’s cool.

Godwin: You can come in and see Maestro Román Filiu, who is like a treasure, you know. So, we expect the audience to be informed.

Or: That’s true.

That’s cool, it’s cool that you guys can state there. All right, Yom, that’s your latest release, your latest work, Or. What are the main concepts, ideas and experiences that give gave life to this record?

I mean, that’s all written in the press release, so you don’t need to ask me that. But really, this album is about this band. It’s just music that was written for Godwin Louis, Jeremy Corren and Savannah Harris. And by working with them, playing with them, being on the road with them, hearing their voices and coming up with material for them. So, it’s really these songs that are just ways for us to play together and just for these incredible artists to express themselves. The themes are always influenced by whatever I’m listening to, or reading, whatever we’re talking about, but that comes after the music.

It’s beautiful, yeah, it’s cool. And I mean, we’re all aware about the fact that you both play in each other’s projects, right? Not always right, but

Sometimes, yeah.

Godwin: When the master is kind enough.

To give a call. I was curious to know how does the composition process work for both of you guy. And since you were saying you wrote the music for these four people, right?

Or: Right.

How much of their suggestions come to the composition? And, how much of the material is already written? And how much of it is informed by all four of you guys? If that makes sense…

Yeah, yeah it makes sense. In the case of my writing, I think most of the material is written. Like we don’t shape or we don’t add that much material in rehearsal, but we rearrange it.

Got it.

We organize it, we structure it, and you know, we just we just do some quality control. Like I write some stuff and the stuff that is good is absorbed into the repertoire and stuff that is not, is not. But, you know, I try to write all the time. It’s important for me to have a practice of regular compositional study and regular compositional output.

Nice!

And some of these things are embellished by these musicians. My friends are so good, they make it sound very good. That’s the process.

It’s awesome. I mean, whoever has watched you guys play live, can feel an environment somewhat magical on the stage. I’d like to know what is going through your minds when you guys play, during the performance. Like, because we can see focused looks in your eyes, focused faces. But yeah, I’d like to know what goes through your minds at that time?

Godwin: Um, for me I’m composing with the band. So that’s… I don’t look at it as improvisation, I look at materials giving and we’re like using the audience and the energy and the environment to compose, based on materials that this maestro gave us. So, that’s solely what I’m thinking about in this band. It’s composing a band. Composing, you know…

Yeah, in live instance…

Exactly yeah, spontaneous composition, yeah.

There you go.

Or: What am I thinking? It really changes. I mean, for a lot of this music, it is… Like playing this music is so demanding for me and playing the bass is really demanding, so most of the time I’m just thinking about how to play in tune, how to play in time.

Got it.

And kind of looking for where the center of gravity of the band is, like where are we in the beat, where are we in the song and trying to…. Basically just playing the role of the bass in the band takes most of my brain. So, there’s not a lot of room for other thoughts.

JD Allen: I had a rehearsal today, you know, like the recording that you heard…, so I had one sheet of paper with twelve tone rolls on it and that’s all we had, you know. So, like I said “okay, go here and you go there” and then we just…, but I had so much fun not knowing what was gonna happen.

In&OutJazz: Yeah, that’s how a baby feels about the world or whatever, really. I mean, this is an interesting thing a baby’s or feels always safe whenever mom’s around, you know.

Yeah, that’s true.

So, if there’s…, mom or dad…, or whoever is in charge of the kid…

We’re dependent on the mom and dad hahahahah, shit. If you had my mom and dad, you’d be like “shit, let’s get away from them” hahahaha. Oh, fuck.

But you got it, you got it.

No, I understand, I understand. I saw my first flamenco show last night. I love flamenco. Oh, my God. First time hearing it, first time seeing it live.  And I talked to one of the musicians, and that, to me, felt the closest to what we do, actually, in terms of improvising, and like the form of it.

I’ve always said the same, man.  I’ve always said…

Bro, I hear the blues roots…

The flamenco roots, are as deep as whatever true music roots you find.  And jazz is the same for sure.

So, what’s it like playing music here for you?  Like, how is it?

Wow, you want the truth or the…, the brief answer or the long answer?  

Okay, it’s probably like it is for everybody all over the world.  Everybody says that.  Even in the States.

I’d say, I’d say, wherever you are at, you have to get your ass out there and stand along the greater cats.  

Yeah, that’s true.

So, that’s how it is wherever you are at, you know.  

That’s what you gotta do, that’s the best way.

If you get the chance to…, whatever, you know, to fly to other scenes and check out other cats and other scenes, that’s going to give you more richness at the end.  So, that’s going to be great.  Or if you get the chance to tour with those greater musicians for a while and you make your trips and visit other countries and stuff, that always broadens your mind, you know.  But, you know, what I’m, you know, the truth is, I think we all have to be serious and take care of our relationship with music, you know.  So, that’s the thing that, you know, even if you’re having success or whatever, you could lose, you know. And you could start feeling music in a way where you feel like you already know everything, there’s nothing unexpected. Music can turn into something else, can turn into socializing or whatever. But music, man, it should be something as deep as it is for a baby to open his or her eyes and see, “oh, water in a cup!”, you know, or, “oh, smoke!”. You don’t have a judgment, you don’t have a statement. You don’t think smoking is whatever or, you know. It’s, you just, wow, go crazy about creation, you know.  So, as long as you take care of that feeling about music, I think you’re gonna be great wherever you have to go. Because then, I think we all have the experience, if you start comparing, you’re dead.

Yeah. I had a teacher when I was a kid…

I mean, if you start saying “I have to be like that cat”, the best thing you’ll achieve is, as we always say, a very bad copy of that guy. “I wanna sound like Immanuel Wilkins, I wanna sound like Joel Ross, I wanna sound like Tigran Hamasyan, I want to sound like…”, you know, whoever, “I want to sound like JD Allen, I want to sound…”. It’s, man, I mean, it’s cool if you’re following them. But if you want to be them, that’s not following, that’s another thing.

Well, you gotta do a little bit of that too. I mean, you know.

No, you gotta imitate, for sure.  

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got to do that.

That’s part of following.

You got to do that, you know, you gotta do a bit of that. This is like, you know, you mentioned parents. We all have things that we take from our parents.

Oh, yeah.

You know, someone told me, what’s the definition of new? Do you know the definition of the word new?

New?

Yeah, new, like something that’s new.

Yeah, something new.  

What is the definition of it?

Something that’s, I’d say something that’s not still. Something that’s, but…

Try the definition of new. Like, this is, this is something new. What is the definition of new?

Yeah, something that doesn’t taste as something still… Change.

Change? New is change? That’s the definition of new?

Maybe.

You know what the definition of new is?

Give it out.

You take two old things and you put them together. That’s the definition of new.

I’d say, yeah, I’d say that’s the definition of creativeness, too.

Well, that’s the definition of us, shit. That’s how we got here, every single one of us.

Oh, yeah, that’s true, that’s true.

There’s two older things that got together.

Oh, shit. I wasn’t getting it.  

That’s how we are.

Oh, shit, yeah.

That’s the definition of new. So that’s why it’s important to check out our comrades, Joel and Immanuel, and then find out who they checked out. Because if you, if you take, you take bits and pieces from different things and you put them together…, and then it’s brand new.

You know what?  That’s for sure. I mean, the greatest people that have stated new things, it wasn’t other than looking at the same things we all have in front of our very own eyes, but in a different way. That would be more like creativeness. I got the fact that something new is…

Do you want to be…? See like, for me personally, like people say, you know, you meet people that say “oh, that’s nothing new, I’ve heard that before”. Sometimes you’ll run into that. Or, “these songs, blah, blah, blah, he sounds like, well, they sound like, blah, blah, blah, blah”.  Or, I was talking to someone the other day, and they were not a musician, but they were saying, “there’s nothing exciting here, there’s nothing that excited me, it’s not anything new…”, and I’m saying to myself…, I personally, I don’t want to be someone that’s “I did something new”, I just want to be a spoke in the wheel.

Oh, sure.

You understand what I mean? I want to add on to that. I don’t necessarily want to be like “I’ve done something no one’s ever done”.

Yeah, yeah.

I don’t believe…, that’s not real. But, me personally, if I can be a spoke within the wheel, or, you know, a quilt, you know.

Yeah, that’s it.

There’s a, if you get a chance, there’s these…, I had a chance to meet them, there’s these…, I’m not even sure if they’re still alive.  There’s this group of people called the Gee’s Bend Quilters, and they make quilts, and they sing. And, and I was in a band, and we did a documentary with them, so we went to Alabama and hung out with them, it was amazing.  And, like, they made quilts, but they would take quilts from pieces from this shirt, from this band, and they would add on to it. And that’s what I want to be. I want to be someone that adds on to the story. Because the original name of jazz, before it was called jazz, it was called the remembering song. Before it was called jazz, at a point in time in Congo Square in New Orleans, they were trying to remember where they came, they were trying to retain some point in history. So, I don’t want to, like, shatter anything. I just want to add on to the story, and then the next person comes and add on, but I, I want to be in there with my little spoke, and I’m good, you know, I don’t need to be like, oh, earth shattering, but I just want to be sincere and add on.

That’s one of the essences that I’ve always found most interesting in the jazz world. You can find it also in other expressions.  

Absolutely.

But the fact that, you know, you see in the same realm, you can find tradition, and tradition meaning our story, you know, our ancestors, people that gave us birth, after all, and trying to build, add on as you were saying. There’s a lot of people today…

In&OutJazz: Enhorabuena por los 25 años. Vamos a hacer siete preguntas.

Xacobe: Una por disco.

Una por disco, eso es. O sea, la primera es… A ver, ¿cómo surge el trío y cómo se mantiene durante 25 años?

Manuel: Surgió tocando juntos en unas jam sessions que había alrededor del año 2000. No sé muy exactamente la época y tal, pero bueno, alrededor de ese año. Y en un club de aquí de Santiago que se llamaba Dado Dadá, porque ya no existe. Entonces, bueno, entre otros, Xacobe organizaba allí unas jam sessions. Y bueno, cuando tocábamos los tres juntos parecía que sonaba de una forma un poco especial, entonces poco a poco se fue cuajando. Y bueno, un día Xacobe propuso que quedáramos. Yo creo recordar que propuse que, si quedábamos, tenía que ser para algo y no solo para tocar y tal, y por ahí fue empezando la cosa.

Xacobe: Sí. Eso es cómo empezamos. En cuanto a cómo nos 25 mantenemos años. Dale tú.

L.A.R.: No sé, pues…

Manuel: Bueno, nos mantenemos jóvenes por lo menos.

L.A.R.: Bueno, no sé. Supongo que entre los tres hay algo que hace que nos respetemos un poco entre los tres. Bueno, la verdad es que no lo sé. Porque es muy difícil, sí.

Manuel: No, pero puede que tengas razón con lo del respeto, ¿no?

Xacobe: Sí. El respeto está. Yo creo que hay respeto. También hay muchísima actividad. En los últimos años Sumrrá ha cogido un acelerón de importancia en cuanto a volumen de conciertos, en cuanto a foco, o sea que hemos estado presentes. Entonces, bueno, es intenso. O sea, como todas las relaciones, pues, oye, no es fácil, pues, porque todos tenemos mil cosas y todos tenemos un nivel de energía que es finito. Pero, sin duda, yo creo que hay respeto desde el principio. Y, bueno, y hay admiración. Yo creo que los tres nos reconocemos como individuos musicales con un carácter y con un discurso digno de escuchar, de respetar y de intentar, por lo menos en mi caso, intentar estar a la altura. Yo creo que eso es…, el respeto sí está presente, sí.

Luego, claro, son tres personalidades completamente diferentes. ¿Qué rol tiene cada uno individualmente? ¿Cómo interaccionáis los tres para formar un grupo tan sólido como es Sumrrá?

Xacobe: ¡Wow! Es la primera vez que nos hacen esa pregunta, ¿no? ¿Qué opináis? ¿Qué pensáis?

Manuel: Yo creo que los roles van cambiando, pero… no sé, bueno, hay algunos que no. Hay algunas cosas…, por ejemplo, Xacobe hace mucho más trabajo que yo en algunos aspectos.

Xacobe: Bueno, y ellos hacen otro tipo de trabajo que yo no hago, claro.

Manuel: Y bueno, hay algunas cosas… Pero después, en cuanto a la música, los roles cambian constantemente. O sea, depende de lo que estés tocando en cada momento. Una de las cosas que pasa es que no hay un líder que dicte cómo se tiene que tocar, sino que cada uno aporta lo suyo y según lo que se va tocando, van surgiendo las cosas, ¿no? Puede que haya días que nos entendamos mejor o peor, pero siempre hay esa actitud de que todo lo que va saliendo, pues, eso es lo que trabajamos. No sobre una idea prefijada o alguien que diga, “pues, esto lo vamos a hacer así o de aquella otra forma”.

L.A.R.: Sí. Luego también, bueno, no sé, yo personalmente como que tocar con Sumrrá, no es que solamente sea importante, sino que es algo así como valioso. Porque va a ocurrir algo que precisamente porque hay tres personalidades muy distintas, es posible que ocurran viajes o situaciones sonoras y musicales que de otra manera, pues, a lo mejor no te las esperarías así. Y con un aplomo y con una constancia y con un derecho y con una objetividad y con una musicalidad que hace, supongo, que sigamos creyendo en todo esto.

Xacobe: Sí, lo de los roles cambiantes yo estoy de acuerdo. Hay momentos en que musicalmente cada uno adquiere diferentes funciones, y eso permite una transmutación interna súper interesante, ¿no? Eso es una de las cosas más que abre, digamos, la paleta de colores. Yo también con Sumrrá me gusta y es una idea recurrente que tengo, que es que realmente nosotros tres es como si aviváramos un fuego que está fuera de nosotros. Es decir, Sumrrá realmente sucede fuera. Es algo difícil de explicar, pero la analogía sería esa. Es decir, la música, nosotros como que convocamos algo que sucede y estamos atentos de darle lo que necesite. Avivarlo, pero no demasiado, echarle un tipo de madera y que sea la acertada. Y entonces estamos como alimentando algo que vive durante un rato y que de repente desaparece. Y los tres, digamos, que presenciamos ese ritual y esa historia. A mí eso me parece de lo más fascinante. O sea, que no va de nosotros, ¿sabes? Nosotros somos unos espectadores más de lo que sucede desde la humildad y desde la fascinación de lo que si dejas que la música suceda, ¿no?… Nosotros sí que tenemos además la suerte de poder organizar la música, es decir, componer, ¿no? Cuando componemos, que Manolo compone y yo compongo, y traemos, digamos, los esqueletos o las piezas de cada uno de los juegos a Sumrrá y entonces como que los tres aportamos ahí, es como que puedes incidir en qué tipo de juego va a ser cada tema, ¿no? Pero esta sensación de que es algo externo a nosotros, yo creo que para mí es una certeza total. Y no sucede en todos los contextos musicales. Y yo creo que en Sumrrá ha sucedido desde el primer minuto en que los tres estábamos tocando juntos. Había algo que se desprendía y que nos inundaba y hemos gozado y entonces eso es el enganche y la fortuna que tenemos desde hace 25 años de trabajar con eso. Y es infinito, claro, o sea, la música es infinita, no se acaba jamás, ¿no? Y con esta historia de tocar tanto, tanto, tanto nuestro repertorio, o sea, hay músicas que llevamos tocando más de 20 años, y que siga habiendo recovecos y siga habiendo esquinas a las que no habías visto nunca y siga habiendo libertad y novedad, joder, es realmente una fortuna. La verdad es que es una pasada.

Y en primera persona, ¿cuál diríais que es lo diferenciador de Zunra? O sea, ¿qué diferencia Sumrrá de otras formaciones?

L.A.R.: Bueno, lo primero que es un grupo. Eso es una cosa que es increíble. Es muy difícil tener un grupo. Es muy complicado. Normalmente siempre, estamos acostumbrados a trabajar con un líder que marca cómo tienen que ser las cosas o a qué tienen que sonar, ¿no? Y aquí lo que sucede es que los tres, no sé si por la personalidad que tenemos, no sé lo que ocurre, pero ocurre algo que es que es un grupo. Y eso es muy difícil, muy difícil. Tener un grupo es muy difícil.

Manuel: Sí, claro, que no hay nadie que pueda hacer mejor lo que hace cada uno en un grupo, ¿no?

Xacobe: Claro.

Manuel: Si sacas a cualquiera, se jodió el grupo.

L.A.R.: Claro, sí.

Xacobe: Sí. Eso es, desde luego es un elemento diferenciador. Y creo que es una de las cosas que más echan en falta, en general, en la música y en el jazz. Es decir, de los referentes de, pues eso, de las grandes bandas, o sea, el cuarteto de Coltrane, o yo qué sé, el quinteto primero, o el sexteto de Miles, o tal, o sea, esos grupos.

L.A.R.: No, pero bueno, ahí estaba Miles mandando y ahí estaba Coltrane mandando. Sí. O sea, yo, pues no sé, Pink Floyd.

Xacobe: Sí. Pero bueno, el cuarteto de Coltrane, claro, Coltrane, digamos, tenía la responsabilidad, pero, hostia, realmente funcionaron como grupo, en el sentido de que cada uno conformó su forma de tocar y desarrolló su forma de tocar. Para mí, mi idea de banda, y tal, eso podría ser. Independientemente de quién ponga el nombre o tal. Pero esa idea de decir, pues eso, como entiendo que debería ser. Nos juntamos con una intuición o una motivación y creamos un espacio seguro donde cada uno pueda aportar lo que necesite aportar en ese momento. Eso, es una forma de trabajar que da una alquimia. Es lo que decía Manolo, si quitas a uno, transmuta todo, ¿no? Entonces eso, hombre, eso es un elemento diferencial.

L.A.R.: Claro, y es que también son 25 años y en otras ocasiones, en otras historias que yo veo fuera, de repente hay el nombre de un grupo, muere uno o se va y de repente llaman a otro y el nombre del grupo sigue…

Manuel: Bueno, si sucede eso no se sabe lo que pasará.

L.A.R.: No lo sabemos, pero vamos. Llevamos 25 años, de momento la cosa…

Manuel: Aquí no se muere nadie!! [risas de todos]

Xacobe: No, aquí tenemos el pacto de que cuando uno muera, el resto se lo funden todo. [risas de todos] Desde luego eso es un elemento diferenciador, sin duda, tío. Vamos, formar parte de una experiencia de grupo es la hostia, es una maravilla, es enriquecedor. Porque por mucho talento que tengas, lo que tengas es finito, ¿sabes? Es limitado. Siempre lo que tú vas a aportar en función del contexto y del marco que te dé el resto del grupo, es, ¿sabes? Es absolutamente la hostia, es grandioso, es muy grande. Y sobre todo si hay una intención común de atender el mismo fuego, ¿no? De, hostia, es realmente súper divertido. Es muy divertido y es adictivo. Y a lo mejor otro elemento más de…

L.A.R.: ¿Otro? El sonido, el sonido, ¿sabes? O sea, yo no encuentro en el planeta a un pianista que suene como Manuel. Igualmente con Xacobe e igualmente conmigo. O sea, yo no encuentro a un batería, ¿sabes? Porque normalmente somos, venimos así de escuchar un montón de gente muy buena y todo eso, ¿no? Y realmente llega un momento en el que tocante con Sumrrá es como que ya las comparaciones, o sea, no entran porque es natural. Es, o sea, es así, ¿no?

Xacobe: Sí. Yo el otro día pensaba precisamente en un momento en el domingo pasado, creo que fue el domingo pasado, tocando que dije, “hostia, o sea, en Sumrrá caben todas las músicas posibles, tío”. Y es verdad, tío, o sea, es una pasada. O sea, es tan demandante a nivel de recursos, que yo todos mis límites técnicos, conceptuales, de instrumento, todo lo he traspasado en directo porque Sumrrá me ha…, ¿sabes? Y yo creo que pasa un poco, o sea, hay días muchos en los que digo “hostia, o sea, ¿cómo es posible que Manolo esté haciendo lo que está haciendo? O sea, hoy, aquí, ahora, después de tal”. Y con Legido igual, ¿no? O sea, tenemos este… Entonces, claro, esa sensación de que ahora mismo, ya hace tiempo que la sensación de que con Sumrrá no hay nada malo que pueda pasar. Es decir, musicalmente cualquier cosa que suceda es gloria, ¿sabes? Esto es la hostia, es una especie de invulnerabilidad. Es como que siempre va a caer en un contexto que le va a dar un sentido de solemnidad, de rotundidad, de seriedad, aunque sea desde lo ridículo. Eso es lo que tiene que ser en ese momento, ¿no? Y la sensación de que estilísticamente ahora mismo Sumrrá es, o sea, cabe en todas las músicas. Se ha generado un universo sonoro en el que absolutamente, en el que absolutamente todo está presente y de repente puedes pasar de algo que suena a Schubert, a algo que suena a Cannibal Corpse, pasando por algo que suena a hip-hop y pasando por… O sea, por poner etiquetas y por, ¿sabes? Por ramalazos que pueden parecer de, “hostia, si necesito etiquetar, ¿cuántas cosas podría etiquetar en 30 segundos de Sumrrá, no?”. Joder, esa sensación de como haber creado como una especie de universo sonoro en el que todo puede suceder, ¿no? Esta obsesión también que tenemos desde el principio del trío de piano clásico de jazz, ¿qué podemos hacer con esto, no? Es decir, nosotros empezamos flipando con, bueno, con Bill Evans, con Keith Jarrett, con Brad Mehldau, con Ahmad Jamal, con todos los tríos maravillosos de piano, ¿no? Y sus contrabajistas, sus bateristas, tal. Y hacemos un disco, y hacemos otro. Y siempre buscando qué cosas quedan por hacer con el trío. Y siguen apareciendo cosas, tío, ahora mismo. Ahora mismo ya… Bueno, hablábamos antes del disco nuevo y estamos en un nivel de música-ficción, por decirlo de alguna manera. De imaginarnos conceptos y organizaciones mentales musicales que es algo muy avanzado en el sentido de nuestro propio recorrido musical. O sea, hemos llegado después de 25 años y de haber currado mucho a un nivel de abstracción musical y de juego con los conceptos que es muy demandante como músico. Pero es muy natural, es muy interesante y es algo con lo que no sé cómo curra otra gente o cómo curran otros grupos que lleven mucho recorrido hecho, pero realmente es muy natural y da la sensación de que todas las músicas están en Sumrrá.

¡Qué interesante, qué interesante! La siguiente pregunta tiene que ver con eso. La siguiente y última es ¿qué no habéis hecho?

Manuel: Pues mira, copiar.

¿Qué no habéis hecho y qué queréis hacer?

Manuel: Lo que no hicimos fue copiar, de momento.

Muy bien.

Manuel: ¿No?

Xacobe: Sí. Evidentemente no, no hemos copiado.

Manuel: Hay una cosa que yo creo que es interesante y no solo en Sumrrá o en los grupos de jazz o en lo que sea, que es una cosa de mentalidad. Que es que cuando te juntas a tocar con otros músicos en muchas ocasiones hay como una especie de intencionalidad de sonar como “lo que sea”. Creo que eso es terrible. Es lo peor que puedes hacer porque vas a acabar sonando como eso que querías si eres suficientemente hábil y vas a acabar siendo uno más de esa corriente que ya está hecha. O sea, no puedes tener esa idea de “voy a hacer un grupo para sonar como”, porque si eres malo no lo vas a conseguir y si eres muy bueno vas a conseguir sonar exactamente igual y no va a servir de nada.

Xacobe: Amén.

L.A.R.: Ya están las siete.

Ya está, perfecto. Gracias.

In&OutJazz: ¡Francisco!

Francisco Mela: ¿Quién habla ahí?

¡Hombre, qué alegría! ¡Mírale! Con la batería y todo detrás, ¡ole, ole!

¿Cómo estamos?

Nos saludamos en español y ahora le damos al inglés para que la gente lo agradezca. ¿Estás todo bien? ¿Estás en Boston, no?

Estoy aquí en Boston, sí.

¡Qué bueno!

Dime tu nombre otra vez, caballero, ¿qué es el nombre?

José. Ahí lo tienes que ver también en la ventanita.

Ah, ok, José, José. Pues, José, mucho gusto y gracias por la oportunidad.

Gracias a ti, gracias a ti. Vamos a darle ya al inglés. Let’s go, let’s go ahead. Man, it’s a real pleasure as always. We’ve had contact with you since a long time ago. I remember a nice interview with Begoña during COVID, right? In quarantine, in those times back then. And anyways, you know us already. We are an independent journal from Madrid, based in Madrid, with a lot of collaborators working to focus on the avant-garde musicians and music that is going on in this era. And Francisco Mela is such a big name, such a name, such a name for a lot of people. And of course, we do also recognize it as a big name in the music realm. And therefore, in a holistic perspective, as a human being too. Because of your artistry, because of your musicianship, and a long list that goes on. Also, you’ve done a lot of collaborations, a lot of records, a lot of music throughout your whole career. You’ve had a long career and I hope it still goes on for a long time. Anyways, thank you for being with us, it’s such an honor. We’re going to head straight to the interview. I’m going to throw you the first question. Really easy one. How are you doing? You’re at the moment in Boston. What are you up to these days? How are you feeling?

Well, well, Jose, first of all, thank you so much for the invitation. And thank you so much for all those words that you proclaimed. I didn’t know that you guys had that estimation, and that concept about me, but thank you so much. Well, to answer your question, yeah, I’m in Boston. Boston is my home base. It’s a home base because now I’m super happy to be here after moving from New York. During the COVID, you know, that was very… let’s say it was terrible. And so, I’ve been always teaching at Berklee and the commute is four hours, Boston-New York. And so, with my wife, we decided that I shouldn’t do this trip every week because I was going every week, Boston-New York.

Right.

Eight hours.

And were you catching the bus or were you doing the flight?

No, no, never fly, because fly makes me crazy.

I see.

Bus and train. And so, I’ve been here teaching. What I am up to is to create a scene here with the people that’s around me and playing music and sharing music.

Would you state that you’re a followed musician in the music scene in the States, in Boston?

The question is if people follow me or if I follow people?

Right, right. I mean, I guess the right answer to that question is yes, totally. But how do you deal with that? With the fact that you are a followed musician, a musician that actually influences the scene in which he’s living at the moment?

Well, I gotta tell you, it’s been great. I don’t know if they follow me or I follow them. But what I really know for real is that we all inspire each other. And so, we have great musicians here in Boston too. But to talk about the followers, well, I have the avant-garde community at Berklee College Music of Boston that is really growing. And somehow, Jose, I think that I’ve been pushing, because now I have two masterclass ensembles that I teach avant-garde.

Nice.

And it’s a lot of people, a lot of people that are great, and people playing differently now. They used to play one way [rigid, stiff and closed], but they now play like these multiple ways [circular-motioned, opened, free]. And so, I think that I’m inspiring some people. I mean, I’m 57 years old now, I’m not a kid no more. And so, I think that they listen to me a little bit.

Yeah, it’s natural. It’s a natural evolution. But we are thankful for that fact. Tell us a little bit about your coming shows at the Vision Festival. Are you excited for that?

That is amazing, Jose.

That’s taking place very soon, right?

Yeah! June 6^th! We want to be at the Vision Festival. And when I say we, it’s because when they asked me to present something, the first thing that I talked about was The Fringe. The Fringe is the band with George Garzone, the legendary George Garzone and John Lockwood, and the drummer who passed away three years ago, Bob Gullotti, he’s a legend there. They had this band for like 50 years, not 40, not 30… 50 years!!!

Look at that.

And so I got super lucky, Jose, because right when I moved to Boston, they asked if I wanted to join them. And I was like “my gosh, are you crazy?” And so, when Vision Festival asked me to do something on my own, I said “I can’t do this without the people that I play every Monday with!” Cause I’ve been playing for three years that I’m here now, every single Monday. And so, this is an opportunity for me, for the band, and also for George Garzone, that is a well-known, super amazing master. And I know it’s on the rate, people don’t really recognize him as the greatest that he is. And when they heard about it, they were very happy and the Vision Festival is super happy. And so, we’re going to have a minute over there, a presentation. We play every Monday, so by playing every Monday, you know how much we have to rehearsed!!? We are totally ready to go and knock out that stage.

It sounds amazing, man. I’m really looking forward to hear about your shows at the Vision Festival. It sounds exciting. Tell us a little bit more about, yeah, your trio projects and and the music you’re working on at the moment. What is the engine that draws you to make up that kind of music you make? Tell us a little bit about that music.

This is amazing. And thank you for asking me this question, Jose. I played with McCoy Tyner for 10 years, right? In 10 years, a lot of things happen, right? And so, we used to play every month, the fourth Monday. Playing with McCoy every month, the fourth Monday. It’s amazing because, McCoy wouldn’t travel that much. And so, a lot of people came. And I just want to mention two people that came. I mean, besides the big amount of people and great musicians that came. Well, you’re a drummer, let me tell you this. Imagine I’m ready to play at the Blue Note in New York. McCoy Tyner over there on the stage ready to hit. And you see a family coming and just going back and sitting down the table behind me. The grandpa, the sons, the three kids, the grandons, and all them are musicians, singers… And I started panicking like this. Can you tell me who they were? 99 years old, the drummer and his family.

I mean, if he was not the master, Roy Haynes…

Yes! Can you believe that, Jose?

Marcus and so on…

Marcus and his two songs, Craig and Graham, the trumpet player, and Leslie, the daughter, they walk like…

All the masters.

They just came to celebrate Roy Haynes’ birthday, which was that same day.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, amazing. So, that’s one thing. Why did I get this direction? Now, well, being with McCoy, I remember that after the show, we finished, we went upstairs for the dinner and someone knocks the door… I always liked to stay with McCoy. The other musicians were in the other room, I’m wanting to be with the master. Taking care of him, “oh, do you need something? If you need anything, let me know”

That’s how you learn, man.

Someone knocks the door. “Come on in”, says McCoy. I open the door, okay. “Hey, McCoy”, says this other great piano player, amazing, another master. When I saw that guy, I was like, “Jesus!”. He looked like a baby, “McCoy, amazing seeing you, blah, blah, blah, blah, always great, you’re such an inspiration, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah”. And McCoy’s sits like this, all calmed and serious, “thank you, thank you”. “Well, McCoy, I’m going to leave you alone, I gotta go, but I hope to see you soon, keep inspiring people, bye!”. He left, I closed the door and I said “McCoy didn’t you recognize that person?” McCoy said to me, all serious “I remember seeing the three of them in the front row listening to the quartet”.

Nice!

But this is only one person, who were the other two? Keith Jarret, Herbie Hancock and that guy, Chick Corea.

Look at that! I mean the three big masters, man.

The three big men. But Chick was there, and I haven’t finished. He came as I told you, looking excited like a little kid…

Right!

And I kept telling McCoy how great Chick is, all the contributions he has made… But McCoy stayed cool. And there’s another Monday, one of those months. I’m with McCoy again, and someone knocks the door. “Come on in”, says McCoy. W

Who knocked the door?

Yeah, I opened the door. There’s a little and short black guy, even shorter than me. With dreadlocks, sunglasses and a little hat, a little boina. Now, McCoy grabs the man, jumps to him, “my gosh, you’re welcomed, what an honor to have you here, blah blah blah”.

Yeah, all excited.

And I still didn’t know who the guy was. They greet each other and say bye, I close the door and I asked McCoy “who’s that person?”. And he answered “I wish I was that free… Cecil Taylor”

Oh, wow…

“Cecil Taylor, that’s the guy, Cecil Taylor!!!!” Because I never saw him before.

Okay.

Oh my gosh. And so, after that McCoy started showing me signals that he wanted to be free.

I get it.

But he wasn’t free like Cecil Taylor, but he really admired those avant-garde people. And so, just to answer the question of why I got this direction in music… When we went to Japan with McCoy, and I played very bad because Lewis Nash was in the audience with his girlfriend, and I got panicked cause I have big respect for Lewis Nash. And I was “oh my god!!”…, I couldn’t play, I couldn’t swing, I couldn’t do anything. And McCoy is like, “what’s wrong?” I said, “McCoy, send me back to New York”. He asked, “Why? What happened?”. I told him “You have Lewis Nash there, I don’t need to be here, man, you got him, like a real afro-american drummer”. He said “No!!! I need you, I need you to grow with me”

Wow!

“I have nothing to teach Lewis Nash. If I wanted him, he would be here with me, but I need you, because you are gonna pass this to the next generation.

Right!

I’ll never forget this. He said, “Mela, you play with McCoy Tyner!!! Free yourself!! We play music to free our souls!” So, when McCoy died, I became a free musician.

Look at that!!!

I went to look for William Parker, Patricia Parker, Cooper Moore…

Yeah, all the fathers of the Free.

All those guys. And I became part of the community. And now I haven’t grown so much in that community because once I started being part of them I left and came to Boston. But can you see that? They still remember me, they still like me, they still love me and they call me “Mela, you want to do something?” And that’s why I became a free musician. And I’m not even focused on the Cuban or the Jazz no more. Because the Cuban and the Jazz is all there, it’s all there.

I get it, yeah.

I don’t need to know the “chinkling chinkling”, or the “tumpa cutika cutukumba”,  no, no.  Let’s play free and in the free you get all that. And that video that Begoña posted reflects everything. Reflects the timba, the jazz, the freedom, you know what I mean?

I know, it’s beautiful. If listened to that video many times, yeah.

That video…, that is who I am, all ingredients right there.

In&OutJazz: I’m so glad to have you, thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you so much. It’s gonna be a quick and fast interview but I have to be thankful that you’re with us. We’re from In&OutJazz journal. We are a bunch of collaborators working to give a shout out to all the artists out there that are pushing the edge, you know. And, I mean, your name, Esperanza Spalding is a huge name already for you carry on your back a huge career and we are mostly honored to have you with us, thank you so much, Esperanza.

Esperanza Spalding: Thank you.

Real quick questions, don’t worry about it, we’ll set you free in a minute. We’d like to know how you’re doing and how the tour is going. You just started. How’s Europe treating you so far? Are you excited to play in Madrid tonight?

Yeah, yeah. So far it’s been really full. We were in Bratislava, and had such a generous reception and a generous welcome with artists there, getting to reconnect with friends and musicians from, you know, 20 years ago that I hadn’t seen in almost 20 years.

How great!

And then we played Paris, two nights ago and also was like a reconvening of so many beautiful artists and musicians and thinkers that I know there who came out. And I felt that love in that. You know, it feels really good to play for people that you love and know, personally.

Amen.

Their love and their knowing pulling out your best. And I know a lot of people in Madrid as well, but I lost contact with so, I’m sort of, expecting some surprises of some I’ve known through the years here. But yeah, this duo with Morgan Guerin that we’re on tour with right now, Paris was the first night that we have performed this publicly so it’s also for us very exciting. Every song, every moment is like ooooh, because it’s so new for us. So, we’re sharing in the anticipation and curiosity as we play.

Wow, sounds super interesting. We’re really looking forward to see your show tonight. So, be sure about that. We’ll be supporting you for sure.

Thank you.

It all sounds so cool. I’m curious to know about your compositional and writing process lately. Do you write on the piano? Do you write on the bass? Do you just sing melodies and then try to work on them? I guess you’ve had an evolution throughout your whole career but let us know how it is nowadays.

Yeah that process… that’s kind of always been my process, a combination of all three things that you mentioned. Mostly I would say writing at the piano. Sometimes writing at the bass and then often yeah, you know, hearing something or having an idea and it starts in the voice and the melody and the voice imply the other parts.

Right.

So then, it’s a process of on bass or on piano, you know, building a body around the DNA and the bones of the idea. And yeah, these days I’m mostly composing things that are for a specific function, like to support a friend or a relative or to help raise funds. And what I mean by help raise funds is like, leaning into the ways that music is a very powerful mover of energy, mover of material reality. So, practicing more and more, recognizing what the need really is, you know. What is the struggle? What is the challenge? What is the thing we’re trying to do? And inviting music in as an action step, as a as a part of the process of organizing ourselves or moving our efforts towards this outcome or towards this point. So a lot of the music has really been that. Very, very practical, very functional like.

I love it.

Silly examples like the city of Portland was going to decide whether or not to let an organization called Albina One purchase…, take over an old school that’s not being used.

Okay.

So, I wrote a song for that organization, Albina One, to take to their session with the city, to have it as like a…, hopefully you know, encouraging the city to move forward with this, you know.

It is beautiful.

There’s like…, it’s very infinite and endless the applications.