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Or Bareket & Godwin Louis Interview

Or Bareket & Godwin Louis Interview

OR BAREKET & GODWIN LOUIS INTERVIEW

Or Bareket Quartet – Yom

19

June, 2025

Text & Interviewer: José Cabello

Photos: Daniel Glückmann

 

A true dream come true! The Or Bareket Quartet held its three-day residency at Café Central during the first weekend of April. We were honored with a beautiful conversation in the company of his close friend Godwin Louis. Both lead their own projects and walk side by side in search of musical truth. Their attentive, discreet, thoughtful, and reflective personalities challenged many of the assumptions we often hold as listeners. They left us with truly delicate and profound reflections on life and music. We hope you enjoy—and most of all, learn from—it as much as we did.

As always, you can check both the podcast and the transcription of the interview down below!

LISTEN TO THE PODCAST HERE BELOW

In&OutJazz: Alright, Or Bareket Quartet in town. We’re having Godwin Louis and Or himself here with us. What a real pleasure for us! We’re In&OutJazz, an independent journal with its base in Madrid. We like to focus on you guys and all the artists out there that are pushing the edge musically. And we’re really looking forward to this conversation. So, we’re really thankful for the fact that you guys accepted. And also, we know you’ve been here for a couple of days now at Café Central, having your residency here. So, we’re really thankful that Café Central has been supporting you guys too. I’m gonna go ahead and kick out the first question. I’d like to know how you guys are doing and if you’re enjoying your time here in Madrid so far.

Or: Yeah, Madrid is, for me, one of my favorite stops on the tour.

Nice.

It’s great to be here with the audience here, great atmosphere, we like the food. We like being able to play in one same place for three nights. A lot of the other stops on the tour are for just one night. So, it’s nice to kind of settle in tour for a few nights in one place.

Right. You’re liking the city. Because you guys have been in town for a couple of times now, right?

Godwin: Yeah, I’ve been here many times. Great to be here supporting this Maestro, Or. Yeah, here for Or.

Yeah, totally. You just mentioned the audience. I was, in fact, about to ask you guys about that. I want to ask you guys to be real honest here. What’s your perception of the audience here in Madrid? And yeah, you can be critical too. I mean, I like that too.

Or: I think the audience is great. I feel like they are, I feel like they are listening without a lot of preconceptions. What I feel that’s unique in Madrid and in Spain in general is I feel like people are really listening for the energy and the vibe and the emotion of the music. Whereas in other places, audiences might have some more of an agenda, of like what is this kind of music or that kind of music and why do you play this and not that.

Doing some analysis maybe.

A little more. And here, even though the audience is informed and aware, they’re able to listen to music that can be very abstract. But they’re still very open and I enjoy that. That’s right, isn’t it? What do you think?

Godwin: Well, I mean, this city has a lot of great musicians. So, I think.

Or: Right, the local scene’s great.

Godwin: It’s one of those local scenes so we don’t expect anything less than people being aware of music because they get great music here.

Or: Right.

That’s cool.

Godwin: You can come in and see Maestro Román Filiu, who is like a treasure, you know. So, we expect the audience to be informed.

Or: That’s true.

That’s cool, it’s cool that you guys can state there. All right, Yom, that’s your latest release, your latest work, Or. What are the main concepts, ideas and experiences that give gave life to this record?

I mean, that’s all written in the press release, so you don’t need to ask me that. But really, this album is about this band. It’s just music that was written for Godwin Louis, Jeremy Corren and Savannah Harris. And by working with them, playing with them, being on the road with them, hearing their voices and coming up with material for them. So, it’s really these songs that are just ways for us to play together and just for these incredible artists to express themselves. The themes are always influenced by whatever I’m listening to, or reading, whatever we’re talking about, but that comes after the music.

It’s beautiful, yeah, it’s cool. And I mean, we’re all aware about the fact that you both play in each other’s projects, right? Not always right, but

Sometimes, yeah.

Godwin: When the master is kind enough.

To give a call. I was curious to know how does the composition process work for both of you guy. And since you were saying you wrote the music for these four people, right?

Or: Right.

How much of their suggestions come to the composition? And, how much of the material is already written? And how much of it is informed by all four of you guys? If that makes sense…

Yeah, yeah it makes sense. In the case of my writing, I think most of the material is written. Like we don’t shape or we don’t add that much material in rehearsal, but we rearrange it.

Got it.

We organize it, we structure it, and you know, we just we just do some quality control. Like I write some stuff and the stuff that is good is absorbed into the repertoire and stuff that is not, is not. But, you know, I try to write all the time. It’s important for me to have a practice of regular compositional study and regular compositional output.

Nice!

And some of these things are embellished by these musicians. My friends are so good, they make it sound very good. That’s the process.

It’s awesome. I mean, whoever has watched you guys play live, can feel an environment somewhat magical on the stage. I’d like to know what is going through your minds when you guys play, during the performance. Like, because we can see focused looks in your eyes, focused faces. But yeah, I’d like to know what goes through your minds at that time?

Godwin: Um, for me I’m composing with the band. So that’s… I don’t look at it as improvisation, I look at materials giving and we’re like using the audience and the energy and the environment to compose, based on materials that this maestro gave us. So, that’s solely what I’m thinking about in this band. It’s composing a band. Composing, you know…

Yeah, in live instance…

Exactly yeah, spontaneous composition, yeah.

There you go.

Or: What am I thinking? It really changes. I mean, for a lot of this music, it is… Like playing this music is so demanding for me and playing the bass is really demanding, so most of the time I’m just thinking about how to play in tune, how to play in time.

Got it.

And kind of looking for where the center of gravity of the band is, like where are we in the beat, where are we in the song and trying to…. Basically just playing the role of the bass in the band takes most of my brain. So, there’s not a lot of room for other thoughts.

That’s cool, thanks for the honesty there, really. No need to invent anything in your answer. Yeah, that’s right. Are you guys pursuing anything when you compose, when you write? Apart from, you know, I guess the sense of community between you guys and doing something beautiful, I guess. Is there anything beyond that? Beyond the music itself? Is there…? Maybe not and that’s totally fine.

Godwin: Like, for me when I’m composing it’s always a teachable moment. I feel like, as, I guess, someone from a younger continent with a complex story, I always feel compelled to tell people the story of that continent. And, so I’m thinking of that, thinking of identity, DNA, world events, everything. So, that’s kind of what my writing is based on, kind of what I can teach people or share with people or create illusions and, yeah.

That’s beautiful. Would you add anything to that?

Or: I mean, no, I can’t add anything to that, that’s the master’s process. But, I would say that my process is just informed by what I study. Like, I’m always studying and listening to things, and I’m always trying to work out certain musical questions.

Beautiful.

And most of the composition comes from that.

And what’re your current topics that you’re diving into in terms of studying?

I mean, for me, it’s always the same question in a way, I think. For me, it’s always, there’s a certain entry point into a composition process. Like, maybe I start from a melody, or I start from some kind of harmonic progression, or from a rhythm, or from form. And I just try to see how I can make it feel like it’s in 3D and has real depth. And I relate to what master Godwin said about just the role of history and musical DNA and really understanding the musical DNA. Not from an academic-scholarly point, but actually dealing with the materials of the music, right? Like, where is this rhythm from? Why do these rhythms appear in different iterations in different parts of the world? What does counterpoint and melodic development look like in different musical cultures and different folklores? So, kind of, in a way, trying to make a language for our generation of composers and improvisers. Because we are essentially, we are all displaced people, to some degree, right? We don’t have… Like, up to two or three generations ago, my family, our family, my family had lived in the same place for hundreds of years. So, like, there was only, there was one kind of music.

Right.

There was one tradition. If you want to be a musician, that’s what you did. But we are after, really several centuries of systematic displacement of people. So, it really changes what does it mean to have a musical tradition and to come from one. You kind of have to be a historian, a researcher, a student, in order to in order to have the same connection that, I think, maybe people once had to the musical language that they were brought up in.

Right.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, totally. I mean, deep words, man.

Godwin: As trained musicians, we have heavier duties to stand, because we’re trained, we’re, quote educated, we’re informed. And so, we live in a musical and social world where a lot of people are misinformed. So, we always have to use those kind of palettes to explore both and find an equal medium of understanding. Especially with this genre there’s so many… If you even think about it, iteration of things, tradition versus progressive versus community versus scene versus… So, and people are all misinformed and all different…, all those iterations that I mentioned. So, because we’re trained then we have, I guess, more on our backs to kind of like present it to people in a way that they can reach it, in a way that pushes them forward, then also question them too.

Okay, let’s go for the last question. Earlier today, I was sharing some of you guys’ music with some friends. One of them made a cool comment, he was saying “I’m virgin, you know, against this music or towards this music because I never heard it before”. And I was like, “that’s what I want, how would you describe it?” And they were saying, “mmm, if this was some food I’d never tried, I’d definitely like to try it again”, or “it smells cool”. And they were saying it sounded real deep and soft at the same time, you know. You guys have a real acoustic and woody sound. So, I’d like to know how you guys describe your own sound as instrumentalists, but also in terms of the whole band. How would you describe your sound? I think it’s going to be helpful for people to know.

Or: I don’t know. I think…, this is going to be…, I’m going to give you an annoying answer, but that’s why we have different mediums for different things. This is the medium of sound. So, like, you can describe it. I think your friends’ description is good, you know. Dark and deep and woody and soft. Like, I definitely want the sound to be, to feel like a place for the listener. I want someone to feel like they can be in the sound, as opposed to, like, in front of the sound or under the sound or next to it, you know.

Nice!

But it’s ultimately…, it’s what the four of us end up creating together. It’s beyond…, it’s beyond descriptors or…, even beyond is a stupid word! It’s just, you can’t convey it with words without reducing it. Like, it is what it is.

That’s right, yeah. Yeah, that’s totally right. I totally agree with that. Well, guys, thanks a lot. We wish you the best set now.

Or: Thank you.

And, yeah, thanks again. That was Or Bareket an Godwin Louis Godwin in town. Thanks!

June 19, 2025

JD Allen Interview – Part II

JD Allen Interview – Part II

JD ALLEN INTERVIEW

Part II

27

May, 2025

Text & Interviewer: José Cabello

Photos: Vilma Dobilaite

We were fortunate enough to catch up with JD Allen during one of his visits to Madrid. The saxophonist, currently based in NYC, frequently tours across Europe and is usually joined by a solid trio featuring Sebastián Chames on piano, Rubén Carles on bass, and Juanma Barroso on drums. This quartet, by the way, recently released an album titled Punto de Encuentro.

On this occasion, they were in the middle of their now traditional residency at the legendary Café Central. We had the chance to drop by at the end of their second set on a Monday at midnight and share an intimate and insightful conversation with JD, in which he spoke openly about his vision of music, his current projects, and other equally inspiring reflections.

Here we present the second part of the interview. You can go ahead and check the first part here.

LISTEN TO THE PODCAST HERE BELOW

JD Allen: I had a rehearsal today, you know, like the recording that you heard…, so I had one sheet of paper with twelve tone rolls on it and that’s all we had, you know. So, like I said “okay, go here and you go there” and then we just…, but I had so much fun not knowing what was gonna happen.

In&OutJazz: Yeah, that’s how a baby feels about the world or whatever, really. I mean, this is an interesting thing a baby’s or feels always safe whenever mom’s around, you know.

Yeah, that’s true.

So, if there’s…, mom or dad…, or whoever is in charge of the kid…

We’re dependent on the mom and dad hahahahah, shit. If you had my mom and dad, you’d be like “shit, let’s get away from them” hahahaha. Oh, fuck.

But you got it, you got it.

No, I understand, I understand. I saw my first flamenco show last night. I love flamenco. Oh, my God. First time hearing it, first time seeing it live.  And I talked to one of the musicians, and that, to me, felt the closest to what we do, actually, in terms of improvising, and like the form of it.

I’ve always said the same, man.  I’ve always said…

Bro, I hear the blues roots…

The flamenco roots, are as deep as whatever true music roots you find.  And jazz is the same for sure.

So, what’s it like playing music here for you?  Like, how is it?

Wow, you want the truth or the…, the brief answer or the long answer?  

Okay, it’s probably like it is for everybody all over the world.  Everybody says that.  Even in the States.

I’d say, I’d say, wherever you are at, you have to get your ass out there and stand along the greater cats.  

Yeah, that’s true.

So, that’s how it is wherever you are at, you know.  

That’s what you gotta do, that’s the best way.

If you get the chance to…, whatever, you know, to fly to other scenes and check out other cats and other scenes, that’s going to give you more richness at the end.  So, that’s going to be great.  Or if you get the chance to tour with those greater musicians for a while and you make your trips and visit other countries and stuff, that always broadens your mind, you know.  But, you know, what I’m, you know, the truth is, I think we all have to be serious and take care of our relationship with music, you know.  So, that’s the thing that, you know, even if you’re having success or whatever, you could lose, you know. And you could start feeling music in a way where you feel like you already know everything, there’s nothing unexpected. Music can turn into something else, can turn into socializing or whatever. But music, man, it should be something as deep as it is for a baby to open his or her eyes and see, “oh, water in a cup!”, you know, or, “oh, smoke!”. You don’t have a judgment, you don’t have a statement. You don’t think smoking is whatever or, you know. It’s, you just, wow, go crazy about creation, you know.  So, as long as you take care of that feeling about music, I think you’re gonna be great wherever you have to go. Because then, I think we all have the experience, if you start comparing, you’re dead.

Yeah. I had a teacher when I was a kid…

I mean, if you start saying “I have to be like that cat”, the best thing you’ll achieve is, as we always say, a very bad copy of that guy. “I wanna sound like Immanuel Wilkins, I wanna sound like Joel Ross, I wanna sound like Tigran Hamasyan, I want to sound like…”, you know, whoever, “I want to sound like JD Allen, I want to sound…”. It’s, man, I mean, it’s cool if you’re following them. But if you want to be them, that’s not following, that’s another thing.

Well, you gotta do a little bit of that too. I mean, you know.

No, you gotta imitate, for sure.  

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got to do that.

That’s part of following.

You got to do that, you know, you gotta do a bit of that. This is like, you know, you mentioned parents. We all have things that we take from our parents.

Oh, yeah.

You know, someone told me, what’s the definition of new? Do you know the definition of the word new?

New?

Yeah, new, like something that’s new.

Yeah, something new.  

What is the definition of it?

Something that’s, I’d say something that’s not still. Something that’s, but…

Try the definition of new. Like, this is, this is something new. What is the definition of new?

Yeah, something that doesn’t taste as something still… Change.

Change? New is change? That’s the definition of new?

Maybe.

You know what the definition of new is?

Give it out.

You take two old things and you put them together. That’s the definition of new.

I’d say, yeah, I’d say that’s the definition of creativeness, too.

Well, that’s the definition of us, shit. That’s how we got here, every single one of us.

Oh, yeah, that’s true, that’s true.

There’s two older things that got together.

Oh, shit. I wasn’t getting it.  

That’s how we are.

Oh, shit, yeah.

That’s the definition of new. So that’s why it’s important to check out our comrades, Joel and Immanuel, and then find out who they checked out. Because if you, if you take, you take bits and pieces from different things and you put them together…, and then it’s brand new.

You know what?  That’s for sure. I mean, the greatest people that have stated new things, it wasn’t other than looking at the same things we all have in front of our very own eyes, but in a different way. That would be more like creativeness. I got the fact that something new is…

Do you want to be…? See like, for me personally, like people say, you know, you meet people that say “oh, that’s nothing new, I’ve heard that before”. Sometimes you’ll run into that. Or, “these songs, blah, blah, blah, he sounds like, well, they sound like, blah, blah, blah, blah”.  Or, I was talking to someone the other day, and they were not a musician, but they were saying, “there’s nothing exciting here, there’s nothing that excited me, it’s not anything new…”, and I’m saying to myself…, I personally, I don’t want to be someone that’s “I did something new”, I just want to be a spoke in the wheel.

Oh, sure.

You understand what I mean? I want to add on to that. I don’t necessarily want to be like “I’ve done something no one’s ever done”.

Yeah, yeah.

I don’t believe…, that’s not real. But, me personally, if I can be a spoke within the wheel, or, you know, a quilt, you know.

Yeah, that’s it.

There’s a, if you get a chance, there’s these…, I had a chance to meet them, there’s these…, I’m not even sure if they’re still alive.  There’s this group of people called the Gee’s Bend Quilters, and they make quilts, and they sing. And, and I was in a band, and we did a documentary with them, so we went to Alabama and hung out with them, it was amazing.  And, like, they made quilts, but they would take quilts from pieces from this shirt, from this band, and they would add on to it. And that’s what I want to be. I want to be someone that adds on to the story. Because the original name of jazz, before it was called jazz, it was called the remembering song. Before it was called jazz, at a point in time in Congo Square in New Orleans, they were trying to remember where they came, they were trying to retain some point in history. So, I don’t want to, like, shatter anything. I just want to add on to the story, and then the next person comes and add on, but I, I want to be in there with my little spoke, and I’m good, you know, I don’t need to be like, oh, earth shattering, but I just want to be sincere and add on.

That’s one of the essences that I’ve always found most interesting in the jazz world. You can find it also in other expressions.  

Absolutely.

But the fact that, you know, you see in the same realm, you can find tradition, and tradition meaning our story, you know, our ancestors, people that gave us birth, after all, and trying to build, add on as you were saying. There’s a lot of people today…

Okay, I got one for you, I got to ask you. I always ask this question, and my friend Branford got me good with this, and he messed me up. Okay, so, what is jazz?

What is jazz?

Yeah, what is jazz?

I would say it’s, for sure, it’s a story that’s always evolving.

Okay. I mean, but technically, what is jazz?

Technically?

Yeah, picture that?

Like a book thing, like more specific.  

Yeah, like, what is jazz?  You got your phone?

I got my phone, man, but…

Can you play something?  I’m going to tell you to pull up something.  And if an alien came to this planet, well, give me an example of what jazz is.

Oh, okay, I got you now.

Okay, you ready?

Go for it.

Okay, so put on Sidney Bechet, Love for Sale.

Let’s go, let’s go, let’s play it, Sidney Bechet. One of the great fathers, tt’s slow, but it’ll get there.

This is so important right here, because when I heard this, I was like, oh. And then he told me, so what is jazz?  Is jazz improvising?

See if it’s this version here.

Yeah, any version. [They play the music].

That vibrato man, it’s crazy, and the strings as hell man.

Ok, did he solo?

Not at all.

He just played the fucking melody, bro. He didn’t solo. He did some obligato stuff but he didn’t solo. So, what is jazz? That shit was jazz for sure. But, what is jazz?

Because it’s not soloing, or improvising.

No, it ain’t solo. What is jazz? Now, I’m about to hook you up. I’m about to give you…, I don’t know if you’re in school but they’re never gonna tell you this shit in school. Jazz is phrasing.

Phrasing.

That’s what we contribute.

Articulation, yeah.

That’s what we contribute.

We didn’t invent… People are improvising in all these chords and shit…, no, no no. That’s not what jazz is. So it’s phrasing. That’s why Louis Armstrong was so important. So, if it’s phrasing, that means it got into the rock and roll, it got into the funk.

Everything that came after it.

Hip-Hop is the same shit.

Oh, yeah, sure.

The flow. They always say, “oh, man he had a nice flow”, they’re talking about phrasing.

You know what struck you about last night, hearing flamenco. It’s the exact same thing, man. It’s…, we call it, they call it soniquete.

Oh, shit, so there’s a word for it too in that music. Okay, that’s probably why I liked it…

Yeah, soniquete is when someone has a good sound and phrasing.

That’s a word in flamenco?

Or duende, right? Yeah, in flamenco is a real important word. Soniquete is like you ain’t got no swing if it ain’t got soniquete.

Oh!!!

Soniquete comes from Sonido, which is sound. Soniquete is a king way of talking about sound.

Wow, really? See, that’s what got me. I believe so.

If you ain’t got soniquete

You ain’t got shit.

Yeah, that’s it.

That’s how I felt about it, yeah. A lot of people get me thinking…

I got the chance to talk to Al Di Meola a couple days ago and I needed to ask him about his relationship with Paco de Lucía. Paco is like the greatest, like the Miles Davis from Flamenco. Camarón de la Isla too.

Oh yeah, Camarón!! Woooo!!!

Paco de Lucía was his guitarist.

Yeah, I know him. Oh, shit!

They got together in 81, they got together for an incredible concert of which they put a record out. It’s Al Di Meola, Paco de Lucía and John McLaughlin.

Yeah, yeah, yeah!!

Three guitarists, all together. And the reason why they knew how to speak to each other, musically speaking, technically speaking, was cause they all had soniquete, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah!

Cause Paco knew shit about chord changes and jazz. He was really closed into the flamenco cadence which is very familiar here in Spain, and you hear it also in Pop music from Spain. Flamenco cadence would be like Blues, one harmonic thing that is really in the roots. Or like the Rhythm Changes or whatever. Like, changes are very, very familiar. So he was really into how flamenco people understand harmony, which is for sure different from the way the jazz world takes it. But they all had soniquete, so he could follow along through the harmonic changes that the other two cats were proposing. And they…, he told me, Al, because I asked him “what did you learn from him and what did he learn from you?”, because he’d already passed out, it’s been a while since he passed out. But so, and he said, “man, I think, every time we went on the stage, we were excited because it was like, man, how am I going to follow this cat? Because every time we took a solo…, it was like, oh shit, get ready because I don’t know how am I going to follow you, man,  because I don’t know what you’re going to come up with, you know?”

Hahahaa, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But they were always following each other in a way where you could hear it’s super musical, man. And it had a strong sense, you know, strong meaning.

Yeah.

Why? Because they all had soniquete, right? They all had swing, they all had phrasing, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow! Oh shit, it’s a small world, right?

It’s a cool world, man. You should definitely, you know, put it in your library of words because it’s amazing. Because it’s phrasing, I guess you would find it also in, it’s more like a technical world, you know, where you could talk about phrasing in Chopin’s music, right?

Yeah, yeah.

You can talk about phrasing in 8bit music, I mean.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But soniquete is like a very, very, very slang thing, and it’s cool.

Yeah, I like it.

I’ve studied jazz in school and stuff. And then one of the things I’ve done is a research master’s degree, right? So after bachelor’s. And, you know, I’ve read so many things and, you know, my research topic has always been, you know, the avant-garde, but not in the sense of the 70’s. The meaning of the word, I liked it. So, the avant-garde would be the contemporary music jazz scene. So, I’ve been, you know, searching a lot around New York scene, so that’s the reason why I got the chance to have a wild and a while with Immanuel a few years ago and with Joel Ross. We’re friends together and it’s amazing. So, yeah, and I’ve already written some interesting stuff on these topics, right? But, you know, the most interesting stuff that I’ve found is…, everyone that I’ve fallen in love with, in the music world, had an approach to music. And it was, you know, it was… their point of view was holistic, you know? It was never partial, you know?

Okay, okay, yeah.

It had to do with everything in life. So, we’re talking about unity here, you know? And now that you were saying before, what’s new? It’s something that comes from…

Two old things.

Man, I’d like to highlight that right there you got at least a three-part relationship.

Yeah.

So, there’s community going, you know?

Wow, okay, yeah.

And so, man, phrasing all this shit can only, it can only have to do with a communal experience, you know?

Mmm, wow.

So, something that’s always deeper than your thoughts or than the definition that  you would give about whatever soniquete is, or community is.  Cause, the most beautiful thing about another human being is that you’re different from me, you know, and that’s the thing I need to stay alive. Interesting, you know.

Yeah, that’s beautiful, man. Wow, he taught me some stuff, man, thank you, brother.

JD, man, it’s gonna be a pleasure every time you come and hit us up, and whenever I come visit you, man, I’ll text you or whatever.

I’m not too far away, man, come anytime, man.

May 27, 2025

Sumrrá Entrevista – 25º Aniversario

Sumrrá Entrevista – 25º Aniversario

SUMRRÁ ENTREVISTA

25º Aniversario

10

Junio, 2025

 

Texto y entrevista: Begoña Villalobos

Fotos: Miguel Estima

 

Desde In&OutJazz hemos tenido el enorme placer de acompañar al trío Sumrrá de Xacobe Martínez Antelo, Manuel Gutiérrez y L.A.R. Legido, en la celebración de sus 25 años de música en Galicia. Disfrutamos de un doble concierto que nos llevó primero al Teatro Colón de A Coruña, y luego a un lugar muy especial para la banda, su casa de los domingos, la Casa das Crechas en Santiago de Compostela. Escuchar a Sumrrá en casa, rodeados de su gente, fue todo un lujo. Además, tuvimos la suerte de pasar unos días con el grupo, compartiendo charlas, risas y momentos únicos que nos permitieron conocer más de cerca su forma de entender la música. También aprovechamos para entrevistarlos, y lo que nos contaron es tan inspirador como su música: compromiso, libertad creativa y una amistad que se nota en cada nota que tocan.

Escucha el Podcast completo aquí!!!!

In&OutJazz: Enhorabuena por los 25 años. Vamos a hacer siete preguntas.

Xacobe: Una por disco.

Una por disco, eso es. O sea, la primera es… A ver, ¿cómo surge el trío y cómo se mantiene durante 25 años?

Manuel: Surgió tocando juntos en unas jam sessions que había alrededor del año 2000. No sé muy exactamente la época y tal, pero bueno, alrededor de ese año. Y en un club de aquí de Santiago que se llamaba Dado Dadá, porque ya no existe. Entonces, bueno, entre otros, Xacobe organizaba allí unas jam sessions. Y bueno, cuando tocábamos los tres juntos parecía que sonaba de una forma un poco especial, entonces poco a poco se fue cuajando. Y bueno, un día Xacobe propuso que quedáramos. Yo creo recordar que propuse que, si quedábamos, tenía que ser para algo y no solo para tocar y tal, y por ahí fue empezando la cosa.

Xacobe: Sí. Eso es cómo empezamos. En cuanto a cómo nos 25 mantenemos años. Dale tú.

L.A.R.: No sé, pues…

Manuel: Bueno, nos mantenemos jóvenes por lo menos.

L.A.R.: Bueno, no sé. Supongo que entre los tres hay algo que hace que nos respetemos un poco entre los tres. Bueno, la verdad es que no lo sé. Porque es muy difícil, sí.

Manuel: No, pero puede que tengas razón con lo del respeto, ¿no?

Xacobe: Sí. El respeto está. Yo creo que hay respeto. También hay muchísima actividad. En los últimos años Sumrrá ha cogido un acelerón de importancia en cuanto a volumen de conciertos, en cuanto a foco, o sea que hemos estado presentes. Entonces, bueno, es intenso. O sea, como todas las relaciones, pues, oye, no es fácil, pues, porque todos tenemos mil cosas y todos tenemos un nivel de energía que es finito. Pero, sin duda, yo creo que hay respeto desde el principio. Y, bueno, y hay admiración. Yo creo que los tres nos reconocemos como individuos musicales con un carácter y con un discurso digno de escuchar, de respetar y de intentar, por lo menos en mi caso, intentar estar a la altura. Yo creo que eso es…, el respeto sí está presente, sí.

Luego, claro, son tres personalidades completamente diferentes. ¿Qué rol tiene cada uno individualmente? ¿Cómo interaccionáis los tres para formar un grupo tan sólido como es Sumrrá?

Xacobe: ¡Wow! Es la primera vez que nos hacen esa pregunta, ¿no? ¿Qué opináis? ¿Qué pensáis?

Manuel: Yo creo que los roles van cambiando, pero… no sé, bueno, hay algunos que no. Hay algunas cosas…, por ejemplo, Xacobe hace mucho más trabajo que yo en algunos aspectos.

Xacobe: Bueno, y ellos hacen otro tipo de trabajo que yo no hago, claro.

Manuel: Y bueno, hay algunas cosas… Pero después, en cuanto a la música, los roles cambian constantemente. O sea, depende de lo que estés tocando en cada momento. Una de las cosas que pasa es que no hay un líder que dicte cómo se tiene que tocar, sino que cada uno aporta lo suyo y según lo que se va tocando, van surgiendo las cosas, ¿no? Puede que haya días que nos entendamos mejor o peor, pero siempre hay esa actitud de que todo lo que va saliendo, pues, eso es lo que trabajamos. No sobre una idea prefijada o alguien que diga, “pues, esto lo vamos a hacer así o de aquella otra forma”.

L.A.R.: Sí. Luego también, bueno, no sé, yo personalmente como que tocar con Sumrrá, no es que solamente sea importante, sino que es algo así como valioso. Porque va a ocurrir algo que precisamente porque hay tres personalidades muy distintas, es posible que ocurran viajes o situaciones sonoras y musicales que de otra manera, pues, a lo mejor no te las esperarías así. Y con un aplomo y con una constancia y con un derecho y con una objetividad y con una musicalidad que hace, supongo, que sigamos creyendo en todo esto.

Xacobe: Sí, lo de los roles cambiantes yo estoy de acuerdo. Hay momentos en que musicalmente cada uno adquiere diferentes funciones, y eso permite una transmutación interna súper interesante, ¿no? Eso es una de las cosas más que abre, digamos, la paleta de colores. Yo también con Sumrrá me gusta y es una idea recurrente que tengo, que es que realmente nosotros tres es como si aviváramos un fuego que está fuera de nosotros. Es decir, Sumrrá realmente sucede fuera. Es algo difícil de explicar, pero la analogía sería esa. Es decir, la música, nosotros como que convocamos algo que sucede y estamos atentos de darle lo que necesite. Avivarlo, pero no demasiado, echarle un tipo de madera y que sea la acertada. Y entonces estamos como alimentando algo que vive durante un rato y que de repente desaparece. Y los tres, digamos, que presenciamos ese ritual y esa historia. A mí eso me parece de lo más fascinante. O sea, que no va de nosotros, ¿sabes? Nosotros somos unos espectadores más de lo que sucede desde la humildad y desde la fascinación de lo que si dejas que la música suceda, ¿no?… Nosotros sí que tenemos además la suerte de poder organizar la música, es decir, componer, ¿no? Cuando componemos, que Manolo compone y yo compongo, y traemos, digamos, los esqueletos o las piezas de cada uno de los juegos a Sumrrá y entonces como que los tres aportamos ahí, es como que puedes incidir en qué tipo de juego va a ser cada tema, ¿no? Pero esta sensación de que es algo externo a nosotros, yo creo que para mí es una certeza total. Y no sucede en todos los contextos musicales. Y yo creo que en Sumrrá ha sucedido desde el primer minuto en que los tres estábamos tocando juntos. Había algo que se desprendía y que nos inundaba y hemos gozado y entonces eso es el enganche y la fortuna que tenemos desde hace 25 años de trabajar con eso. Y es infinito, claro, o sea, la música es infinita, no se acaba jamás, ¿no? Y con esta historia de tocar tanto, tanto, tanto nuestro repertorio, o sea, hay músicas que llevamos tocando más de 20 años, y que siga habiendo recovecos y siga habiendo esquinas a las que no habías visto nunca y siga habiendo libertad y novedad, joder, es realmente una fortuna. La verdad es que es una pasada.

Y en primera persona, ¿cuál diríais que es lo diferenciador de Zunra? O sea, ¿qué diferencia Sumrrá de otras formaciones?

L.A.R.: Bueno, lo primero que es un grupo. Eso es una cosa que es increíble. Es muy difícil tener un grupo. Es muy complicado. Normalmente siempre, estamos acostumbrados a trabajar con un líder que marca cómo tienen que ser las cosas o a qué tienen que sonar, ¿no? Y aquí lo que sucede es que los tres, no sé si por la personalidad que tenemos, no sé lo que ocurre, pero ocurre algo que es que es un grupo. Y eso es muy difícil, muy difícil. Tener un grupo es muy difícil.

Manuel: Sí, claro, que no hay nadie que pueda hacer mejor lo que hace cada uno en un grupo, ¿no?

Xacobe: Claro.

Manuel: Si sacas a cualquiera, se jodió el grupo.

L.A.R.: Claro, sí.

Xacobe: Sí. Eso es, desde luego es un elemento diferenciador. Y creo que es una de las cosas que más echan en falta, en general, en la música y en el jazz. Es decir, de los referentes de, pues eso, de las grandes bandas, o sea, el cuarteto de Coltrane, o yo qué sé, el quinteto primero, o el sexteto de Miles, o tal, o sea, esos grupos.

L.A.R.: No, pero bueno, ahí estaba Miles mandando y ahí estaba Coltrane mandando. Sí. O sea, yo, pues no sé, Pink Floyd.

Xacobe: Sí. Pero bueno, el cuarteto de Coltrane, claro, Coltrane, digamos, tenía la responsabilidad, pero, hostia, realmente funcionaron como grupo, en el sentido de que cada uno conformó su forma de tocar y desarrolló su forma de tocar. Para mí, mi idea de banda, y tal, eso podría ser. Independientemente de quién ponga el nombre o tal. Pero esa idea de decir, pues eso, como entiendo que debería ser. Nos juntamos con una intuición o una motivación y creamos un espacio seguro donde cada uno pueda aportar lo que necesite aportar en ese momento. Eso, es una forma de trabajar que da una alquimia. Es lo que decía Manolo, si quitas a uno, transmuta todo, ¿no? Entonces eso, hombre, eso es un elemento diferencial.

L.A.R.: Claro, y es que también son 25 años y en otras ocasiones, en otras historias que yo veo fuera, de repente hay el nombre de un grupo, muere uno o se va y de repente llaman a otro y el nombre del grupo sigue…

Manuel: Bueno, si sucede eso no se sabe lo que pasará.

L.A.R.: No lo sabemos, pero vamos. Llevamos 25 años, de momento la cosa…

Manuel: Aquí no se muere nadie!! [risas de todos]

Xacobe: No, aquí tenemos el pacto de que cuando uno muera, el resto se lo funden todo. [risas de todos] Desde luego eso es un elemento diferenciador, sin duda, tío. Vamos, formar parte de una experiencia de grupo es la hostia, es una maravilla, es enriquecedor. Porque por mucho talento que tengas, lo que tengas es finito, ¿sabes? Es limitado. Siempre lo que tú vas a aportar en función del contexto y del marco que te dé el resto del grupo, es, ¿sabes? Es absolutamente la hostia, es grandioso, es muy grande. Y sobre todo si hay una intención común de atender el mismo fuego, ¿no? De, hostia, es realmente súper divertido. Es muy divertido y es adictivo. Y a lo mejor otro elemento más de…

L.A.R.: ¿Otro? El sonido, el sonido, ¿sabes? O sea, yo no encuentro en el planeta a un pianista que suene como Manuel. Igualmente con Xacobe e igualmente conmigo. O sea, yo no encuentro a un batería, ¿sabes? Porque normalmente somos, venimos así de escuchar un montón de gente muy buena y todo eso, ¿no? Y realmente llega un momento en el que tocante con Sumrrá es como que ya las comparaciones, o sea, no entran porque es natural. Es, o sea, es así, ¿no?

Xacobe: Sí. Yo el otro día pensaba precisamente en un momento en el domingo pasado, creo que fue el domingo pasado, tocando que dije, “hostia, o sea, en Sumrrá caben todas las músicas posibles, tío”. Y es verdad, tío, o sea, es una pasada. O sea, es tan demandante a nivel de recursos, que yo todos mis límites técnicos, conceptuales, de instrumento, todo lo he traspasado en directo porque Sumrrá me ha…, ¿sabes? Y yo creo que pasa un poco, o sea, hay días muchos en los que digo “hostia, o sea, ¿cómo es posible que Manolo esté haciendo lo que está haciendo? O sea, hoy, aquí, ahora, después de tal”. Y con Legido igual, ¿no? O sea, tenemos este… Entonces, claro, esa sensación de que ahora mismo, ya hace tiempo que la sensación de que con Sumrrá no hay nada malo que pueda pasar. Es decir, musicalmente cualquier cosa que suceda es gloria, ¿sabes? Esto es la hostia, es una especie de invulnerabilidad. Es como que siempre va a caer en un contexto que le va a dar un sentido de solemnidad, de rotundidad, de seriedad, aunque sea desde lo ridículo. Eso es lo que tiene que ser en ese momento, ¿no? Y la sensación de que estilísticamente ahora mismo Sumrrá es, o sea, cabe en todas las músicas. Se ha generado un universo sonoro en el que absolutamente, en el que absolutamente todo está presente y de repente puedes pasar de algo que suena a Schubert, a algo que suena a Cannibal Corpse, pasando por algo que suena a hip-hop y pasando por… O sea, por poner etiquetas y por, ¿sabes? Por ramalazos que pueden parecer de, “hostia, si necesito etiquetar, ¿cuántas cosas podría etiquetar en 30 segundos de Sumrrá, no?”. Joder, esa sensación de como haber creado como una especie de universo sonoro en el que todo puede suceder, ¿no? Esta obsesión también que tenemos desde el principio del trío de piano clásico de jazz, ¿qué podemos hacer con esto, no? Es decir, nosotros empezamos flipando con, bueno, con Bill Evans, con Keith Jarrett, con Brad Mehldau, con Ahmad Jamal, con todos los tríos maravillosos de piano, ¿no? Y sus contrabajistas, sus bateristas, tal. Y hacemos un disco, y hacemos otro. Y siempre buscando qué cosas quedan por hacer con el trío. Y siguen apareciendo cosas, tío, ahora mismo. Ahora mismo ya… Bueno, hablábamos antes del disco nuevo y estamos en un nivel de música-ficción, por decirlo de alguna manera. De imaginarnos conceptos y organizaciones mentales musicales que es algo muy avanzado en el sentido de nuestro propio recorrido musical. O sea, hemos llegado después de 25 años y de haber currado mucho a un nivel de abstracción musical y de juego con los conceptos que es muy demandante como músico. Pero es muy natural, es muy interesante y es algo con lo que no sé cómo curra otra gente o cómo curran otros grupos que lleven mucho recorrido hecho, pero realmente es muy natural y da la sensación de que todas las músicas están en Sumrrá.

¡Qué interesante, qué interesante! La siguiente pregunta tiene que ver con eso. La siguiente y última es ¿qué no habéis hecho?

Manuel: Pues mira, copiar.

¿Qué no habéis hecho y qué queréis hacer?

Manuel: Lo que no hicimos fue copiar, de momento.

Muy bien.

Manuel: ¿No?

Xacobe: Sí. Evidentemente no, no hemos copiado.

Manuel: Hay una cosa que yo creo que es interesante y no solo en Sumrrá o en los grupos de jazz o en lo que sea, que es una cosa de mentalidad. Que es que cuando te juntas a tocar con otros músicos en muchas ocasiones hay como una especie de intencionalidad de sonar como “lo que sea”. Creo que eso es terrible. Es lo peor que puedes hacer porque vas a acabar sonando como eso que querías si eres suficientemente hábil y vas a acabar siendo uno más de esa corriente que ya está hecha. O sea, no puedes tener esa idea de “voy a hacer un grupo para sonar como”, porque si eres malo no lo vas a conseguir y si eres muy bueno vas a conseguir sonar exactamente igual y no va a servir de nada.

Xacobe: Amén.

L.A.R.: Ya están las siete.

Ya está, perfecto. Gracias.

Junio 10, 2025

Miguel Zenón Entrevista – Jazz en el Auditorio CNDM

Miguel Zenón Entrevista – Jazz en el Auditorio CNDM

MIGUEL ZENÓN ENTREVISTA

Jazz en el Auditorio CNDM

05

Junio, 2025

 

Texto y Fotos: Daniel Glückmann

 

Para crear arte, el sentido de comunidad es esencial

A los músicos uno siempre se los imagina grandes. Será por las fotos, las pantallas, quién sabe…. Pero Miguel Zenón (San Juan de Puerto Rico, 1976) es un hombre menudo que aparenta cierta timidez que se va diluyendo a medida que transcurre la conversación. El día anterior llegó de viaje, no pudo descansar muy bien y eso que es solo el inicio de la gira que llevará al cuarteto por muchos escenarios de Europa al típico ritmo de casi una ciudad diferente cada día. Llega desde su mundo tarareando Para Elisa, la mítica obra de Beethoven. “Estaba viendo una película y se me pegó la melodía como si fuera un gusanito”, explica divertido.

Esa noche, el saxofonista tocaba con su cuarteto en el Auditorio Nacional de Madrid en el ciclo Jazz en el Auditorio organizado por el Centro Nacional de Difusión Musical que periódicamente trae a grandes figuras del jazz internacional. Su cuarteto está formado por su inseparable pianista Luis Perdomo, con quien ganó el Grammy al mejor álbum de jazz latino en 2024 con El Arte del Bolero, por Hans Glawischnig al contrabajo y Henry Cole a la batería.

Con 17 álbumes como líder, Zenón es un peso pesado del jazz contemporáneo y uno de los saxofonistas altos más reconocidos del panorama actual. Su música transita por una enorme variedad de colores, siempre con un punto de conexión con su Puerto Rico natal, aunque él se considera, sin más, un músico de jazz. Estudió en Berklee, formó parte del colectivo SFJazz Collective y ha colaborado con músicos como Kurt Ellington, Joey Calderazzo, Steve Coleman, Ray Barreto, Jerry González, Bobby Hutcherson, Fred Hersch, Danilo Pérez y muchas otras grandes figuras del género.

 

In&OutJazz: Cuando en el año 2009 salió tu disco “Esta Plena”, se convirtió en mi álbum de cabecera por bastante tiempo atraído por la mezcla de jazz y música de Puerto Rico que me fascinó. Pero tienes 17 álbumes en solitario desarrollando una gran variedad de estilos, de lo tradicional a lo más contemporáneo. ¿Cuántas almas tiene Miguel Zenón?

Miguel Zenón: Yo no sé si hay más de una, honestamente. Sólo que adopto diferentes perspectivas dependiendo del momento en el que me encuentre. Con la edad también cambian muchas cosas, pero básicamente el proceso siempre es igual. Surge algo que quiero explorar en profundidad, inicio un proyecto de investigación y de allí salen la música y las grabaciones. ­­Cada proyecto tiene un reloj: empieza por una pregunta, continúa con una investigación y culmina con el proceso de retratarlo en una grabación.

Es casi como escribir un libro, ¿sí?

Sí, es más o menos así.

Cuéntanos un poquito más acerca de este proceso de investigación. ¿Cómo lo planteas?

Te puedo poner como ejemplo el proyecto de “Esta Plena” que nace de un interés mío de adentrarme en el estilo tradicional de la música de Puerto Rico con el que yo crecí, pero que realmente, nunca había estudiado en profundidad.

Muchas de las cosas que me llaman la atención desde el principio no son tanto las que tienen que ver con la música, sino lo que va más allá; en cómo se mete la música dentro del día a día, dentro de la sociedad, lo cultural, en cómo se refleja en las tradiciones no musicales. Obviamente, un paso es escuchar mucha música, pero también conocer la literatura, investigar la tradición oral y mantener muchas entrevistas con los maestros que más saben de nuestra música.

Y todo eso, antes de escribir una nota.

Antes de escribir una nota. Después que se recopila la información, empiezo a extraer un hilo conductor y es ahí, cuando empiezo a escribir con todos esos elementos en mente. Todos mis proyectos se desarrollan de una forma bastante similar a esta. Quizás otras personas componen de una forma más intuitiva pero este tipo de proceso de investigación es el que a mí me hace sentido.

Dentro de la música del Caribe, estamos muy familiarizados con la música cubana, pero no tanto con la de Puerto Rico, sin contar con fenómenos como Bad Bunny, por supuesto. ¿Cuál es el panorama actualmente de la música en Puerto Rico? ¿Qué es lo que más te interesa o te preocupa?

Bueno, preocupaciones muchas. De Puerto Rico siempre ha salido mucha música, pero lo que ocurre con la de Puerto Rico y también con la de muchos otros países del área como Colombia o Venezuela, es que por muchos años se miraron todas dentro de la sombrilla afro-caribeña, que en muchos sentidos significaba afro-cubana y cuando se pensaba en música afro-latina, se pensaba en lo afro-cubano primero y se asumía que todo el resto de la música del área era similar o igual.

Sin embargo, todos estos países tienen sus propios mundos musicales y culturales y es en las últimas décadas cuando se ha empezado a ver con más detenimiento la identidad específica de cada lugar, una identidad que está resurgiendo. En el caso de Puerto Rico, ha ayudado mucho la música popular, la música de artistas como Bad Bunny que están explotando estos sonidos de música tradicional puertorriqueña y la gente dice, guau, esa música es de Puerto Rico.

¿Qué hace única la música en Puerto Rico respecto al resto del Caribe?

Tiene cosas muy diferentes. Por ejemplo, la “Plena” es bien puertorriqueña como concepto musical. La instrumentación, cómo se utiliza, cómo está metida la sociedad. También la “Bomba” puertorriqueña, esa música campesina tan única. Entonces, sí hay cosas diferentes, pero a mí me interesa tanto la diferencia como la similitud y me ilusiona ver un renacer en el interés del público joven por la cultura y la música tradicional puertorriqueña.

A pesar de todas las raíces e influencias, siempre dices que te consideras un músico de jazz, inspirado originalmente por algunos de los grandes músicos como Charlie Parker o John Coltrane. ¿Cuál es para ti la mayor diferencia entre el jazz de hoy respecto al de la época del bebop y de los años 50?

Creo que hay muchas diferencias. La mayor es que ahora hay muchos más músicos que antes. Si tú piensas en la época de los 40 o los 50, había músicos buenísimos, pero era un grupo bien pequeño y todos tocaban entre ellos. Ahora los tienes que multiplicar por lo menos por 50 o 100, en términos mundiales.

Siguiendo con las diferencias, también está el nivel. Yo pienso que el nivel de la música siempre crece. Obviamente, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, son mis héroes, pero se me hace bien difícil pensar que esa fue la mejor época del jazz. Yo pienso que la mejor época del jazz será la de mañana y pasado mañana. Siempre se crece, siempre se va mejorando y siempre hay mejores músicos, más estudiosos, más informados, con más acceso a las herramientas.

Y musicalmente, ¿hay alguna característica intrínseca que haga al jazz contemporáneo diferente de aquél?  

El jazz siempre ha sido una música bien inclusiva que se nutre de otros estilos. Eso siempre ha funcionado así pero hoy en día pasa más que nunca. ¿Por qué? Por el acceso a la información. Hay tanto acceso y tanta facilidad para acceder a la información que el jazz siempre está mirando a qué más podemos incluir. Eso es algo que definitivamente, no había pasado hace 40 o 50 años de una forma tan orgánica como ahora.

Debido al enorme desarrollo e influencia que actualmente tienen las escuelas de música en la formación de los actuales músicos de jazz, ¿es una exageración calificar al jazz contemporáneo como el “Jazz de Berklee”? (El “Berklee Global Jazz Institute”, con sede principal en Boston, es la más importante escuela de jazz a nivel global, por donde han pasado la mayoría de los mejores músicos actuales de jazz, incluido Miguel Zenón).

Yo no diría tanto, pero Berklee sí es un buen ejemplo porque creó un sistema de enseñar el jazz que no existía antes. No existía un sistema formal de cómo enseñar la armonía del jazz, la historia del jazz, la improvisación. Ellos crearon un método, un sistema y todos los que van allí están estudiando el mismo sistema. Hasta cierto punto, es algo que no había existido antes.

Pero sí, la pedagogía y la academia hacen que el acercamiento a la música sea bien diferente. Ante, desde siempre, era una tradición oral pero ahora se convierte en una tradición pedagógica, académica. Aunque yo todavía pienso que lo de la tradición oral es lo que tiene más importancia, ahora es como ir a estudiar matemáticas o ingeniería. Es otro tipo de dinámica.

Se escucha un argumento que dice que la academia ha restado un poco de autenticidad a la música. ¿Tú qué opinas?

Yo entiendo el argumento y pienso que, hasta cierto punto, la idea de que haya un sistema y que todos estudien lo mismo, puede crear un tipo de vacío en términos de personalidad. Pero la otra cara de la moneda es el acceso a la información. Estoy seguro de que muchos de nuestros maestros hubieran querido tener esta cantidad de información para poder nutrirse. Otra cosa que provee una escuela de música, algo que para mí es bien importante, es el sentido de comunidad. Para crear arte, el sentido de comunidad es esencial.

El jazz en sus inicios y durante bastante tiempo ha sido también una música reivindicativa. ¿Crees que todavía lo es o lo puede ser, respecto a los problemas sociales y a los conflictos presentes en el mundo actual?

Sí, claro. Obviamente, hay diferentes puntos de vista respecto a eso. Yo conozco artistas que no piensan que lo que estamos haciendo debe reflejar nuestras impresiones u opiniones sobre lo que está pasando en el mundo.

Yo no soy una de esas personas. Pero sí pienso que es importante que lo que estemos haciendo lo hagamos de una manera personal y honesta. O sea, cada cual tiene una manera de reflejar su preocupación como seres humanos de lo que está pasando alrededor nuestro, unos de una manera bien directa y transparente, otro quizás menos. En el caso mío, yo sí pienso que muchas de mis preocupaciones tienen que ver conmigo y por extensión, tiene que ver con la idea de lo que es ser un extranjero.

¿Siendo portorriqueño, tú te sientes un extranjero en Estados Unidos?

Sí, yo me considero puertorriqueño, aunque vivo en Estados Unidos. Y especialmente ahora, mucho de lo que está pasando en Estados Unidos y en otros lugares del mundo, con el auge de ese sentimiento anti-inmigrante, anti-extranjero; a mí lo que me hace, es sentir que me tengo que agarrarme más a lo que soy, a lo puertorriqueño, a lo auténtico. Esa es mi ancla.

¿Cuánto te cambió la vida obtener un Grammy?

La vida no sé. Yo lo veo más como un tipo de escalón, definitivamente es un escalón muy grande, porque es un premio que todo el mundo va a reconocer. Pero yo estoy bien consciente que no me ayuda en nada a ser mejor músico. En esos términos es cero. Pero en términos de acceso al público, pues ayuda y es súper positivo. Yo lo veo como ese tipo de plataforma.

Miguel Zenón lleva consigo su “alto” en un compacto estuche que abre con mimo para posar en el retrato de esta entrevista y en la que sigue. “Nunca he tocado otro”, afirma, cuando le comento lo cómodo que resulta viajar con él frente a otros instrumentos que no hay quien traslade.

Junio 05, 2025

Francisco Mela Interview

Francisco Mela Interview

FRANCISCO MELA INTERVIEW

30

May, 2025

Text & Interviewer: José Cabello

Just one week before his performance at the Vision Festival, the renowned drummer Francisco Mela granted us the privilege of sitting down with him for a little while. He shared fascinating thoughts and reflections about his career, his experience, and his worldview. It was a true pleasure to listen to the maestro.

We hope you enjoy it just as much—or even more!

LISTEN TO THE PODCAST HERE BELOW

In&OutJazz: ¡Francisco!

Francisco Mela: ¿Quién habla ahí?

¡Hombre, qué alegría! ¡Mírale! Con la batería y todo detrás, ¡ole, ole!

¿Cómo estamos?

Nos saludamos en español y ahora le damos al inglés para que la gente lo agradezca. ¿Estás todo bien? ¿Estás en Boston, no?

Estoy aquí en Boston, sí.

¡Qué bueno!

Dime tu nombre otra vez, caballero, ¿qué es el nombre?

José. Ahí lo tienes que ver también en la ventanita.

Ah, ok, José, José. Pues, José, mucho gusto y gracias por la oportunidad.

Gracias a ti, gracias a ti. Vamos a darle ya al inglés. Let’s go, let’s go ahead. Man, it’s a real pleasure as always. We’ve had contact with you since a long time ago. I remember a nice interview with Begoña during COVID, right? In quarantine, in those times back then. And anyways, you know us already. We are an independent journal from Madrid, based in Madrid, with a lot of collaborators working to focus on the avant-garde musicians and music that is going on in this era. And Francisco Mela is such a big name, such a name, such a name for a lot of people. And of course, we do also recognize it as a big name in the music realm. And therefore, in a holistic perspective, as a human being too. Because of your artistry, because of your musicianship, and a long list that goes on. Also, you’ve done a lot of collaborations, a lot of records, a lot of music throughout your whole career. You’ve had a long career and I hope it still goes on for a long time. Anyways, thank you for being with us, it’s such an honor. We’re going to head straight to the interview. I’m going to throw you the first question. Really easy one. How are you doing? You’re at the moment in Boston. What are you up to these days? How are you feeling?

Well, well, Jose, first of all, thank you so much for the invitation. And thank you so much for all those words that you proclaimed. I didn’t know that you guys had that estimation, and that concept about me, but thank you so much. Well, to answer your question, yeah, I’m in Boston. Boston is my home base. It’s a home base because now I’m super happy to be here after moving from New York. During the COVID, you know, that was very… let’s say it was terrible. And so, I’ve been always teaching at Berklee and the commute is four hours, Boston-New York. And so, with my wife, we decided that I shouldn’t do this trip every week because I was going every week, Boston-New York.

Right.

Eight hours.

And were you catching the bus or were you doing the flight?

No, no, never fly, because fly makes me crazy.

I see.

Bus and train. And so, I’ve been here teaching. What I am up to is to create a scene here with the people that’s around me and playing music and sharing music.

Would you state that you’re a followed musician in the music scene in the States, in Boston?

The question is if people follow me or if I follow people?

Right, right. I mean, I guess the right answer to that question is yes, totally. But how do you deal with that? With the fact that you are a followed musician, a musician that actually influences the scene in which he’s living at the moment?

Well, I gotta tell you, it’s been great. I don’t know if they follow me or I follow them. But what I really know for real is that we all inspire each other. And so, we have great musicians here in Boston too. But to talk about the followers, well, I have the avant-garde community at Berklee College Music of Boston that is really growing. And somehow, Jose, I think that I’ve been pushing, because now I have two masterclass ensembles that I teach avant-garde.

Nice.

And it’s a lot of people, a lot of people that are great, and people playing differently now. They used to play one way [rigid, stiff and closed], but they now play like these multiple ways [circular-motioned, opened, free]. And so, I think that I’m inspiring some people. I mean, I’m 57 years old now, I’m not a kid no more. And so, I think that they listen to me a little bit.

Yeah, it’s natural. It’s a natural evolution. But we are thankful for that fact. Tell us a little bit about your coming shows at the Vision Festival. Are you excited for that?

That is amazing, Jose.

That’s taking place very soon, right?

Yeah! June 6th! We want to be at the Vision Festival. And when I say we, it’s because when they asked me to present something, the first thing that I talked about was The Fringe. The Fringe is the band with George Garzone, the legendary George Garzone and John Lockwood, and the drummer who passed away three years ago, Bob Gullotti, he’s a legend there. They had this band for like 50 years, not 40, not 30… 50 years!!!

Look at that.

And so I got super lucky, Jose, because right when I moved to Boston, they asked if I wanted to join them. And I was like “my gosh, are you crazy?” And so, when Vision Festival asked me to do something on my own, I said “I can’t do this without the people that I play every Monday with!” Cause I’ve been playing for three years that I’m here now, every single Monday. And so, this is an opportunity for me, for the band, and also for George Garzone, that is a well-known, super amazing master. And I know it’s on the rate, people don’t really recognize him as the greatest that he is. And when they heard about it, they were very happy and the Vision Festival is super happy. And so, we’re going to have a minute over there, a presentation. We play every Monday, so by playing every Monday, you know how much we have to rehearsed!!? We are totally ready to go and knock out that stage.

It sounds amazing, man. I’m really looking forward to hear about your shows at the Vision Festival. It sounds exciting. Tell us a little bit more about, yeah, your trio projects and and the music you’re working on at the moment. What is the engine that draws you to make up that kind of music you make? Tell us a little bit about that music.

This is amazing. And thank you for asking me this question, Jose. I played with McCoy Tyner for 10 years, right? In 10 years, a lot of things happen, right? And so, we used to play every month, the fourth Monday. Playing with McCoy every month, the fourth Monday. It’s amazing because, McCoy wouldn’t travel that much. And so, a lot of people came. And I just want to mention two people that came. I mean, besides the big amount of people and great musicians that came. Well, you’re a drummer, let me tell you this. Imagine I’m ready to play at the Blue Note in New York. McCoy Tyner over there on the stage ready to hit. And you see a family coming and just going back and sitting down the table behind me. The grandpa, the sons, the three kids, the grandons, and all them are musicians, singers… And I started panicking like this. Can you tell me who they were? 99 years old, the drummer and his family.

I mean, if he was not the master, Roy Haynes…

Yes! Can you believe that, Jose?

Marcus and so on…

Marcus and his two songs, Craig and Graham, the trumpet player, and Leslie, the daughter, they walk like…

All the masters.

They just came to celebrate Roy Haynes’ birthday, which was that same day.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, amazing. So, that’s one thing. Why did I get this direction? Now, well, being with McCoy, I remember that after the show, we finished, we went upstairs for the dinner and someone knocks the door… I always liked to stay with McCoy. The other musicians were in the other room, I’m wanting to be with the master. Taking care of him, “oh, do you need something? If you need anything, let me know”

That’s how you learn, man.

Someone knocks the door. “Come on in”, says McCoy. I open the door, okay. “Hey, McCoy”, says this other great piano player, amazing, another master. When I saw that guy, I was like, “Jesus!”. He looked like a baby, “McCoy, amazing seeing you, blah, blah, blah, blah, always great, you’re such an inspiration, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah”. And McCoy’s sits like this, all calmed and serious, “thank you, thank you”. “Well, McCoy, I’m going to leave you alone, I gotta go, but I hope to see you soon, keep inspiring people, bye!”. He left, I closed the door and I said “McCoy didn’t you recognize that person?” McCoy said to me, all serious “I remember seeing the three of them in the front row listening to the quartet”.

Nice!

But this is only one person, who were the other two? Keith Jarret, Herbie Hancock and that guy, Chick Corea.

Look at that! I mean the three big masters, man.

The three big men. But Chick was there, and I haven’t finished. He came as I told you, looking excited like a little kid…

Right!

And I kept telling McCoy how great Chick is, all the contributions he has made… But McCoy stayed cool. And there’s another Monday, one of those months. I’m with McCoy again, and someone knocks the door. “Come on in”, says McCoy. W

Who knocked the door?

Yeah, I opened the door. There’s a little and short black guy, even shorter than me. With dreadlocks, sunglasses and a little hat, a little boina. Now, McCoy grabs the man, jumps to him, “my gosh, you’re welcomed, what an honor to have you here, blah blah blah”.

Yeah, all excited.

And I still didn’t know who the guy was. They greet each other and say bye, I close the door and I asked McCoy “who’s that person?”. And he answered “I wish I was that free… Cecil Taylor”

Oh, wow…

“Cecil Taylor, that’s the guy, Cecil Taylor!!!!” Because I never saw him before.

Okay.

Oh my gosh. And so, after that McCoy started showing me signals that he wanted to be free.

I get it.

But he wasn’t free like Cecil Taylor, but he really admired those avant-garde people. And so, just to answer the question of why I got this direction in music… When we went to Japan with McCoy, and I played very bad because Lewis Nash was in the audience with his girlfriend, and I got panicked cause I have big respect for Lewis Nash. And I was “oh my god!!”…, I couldn’t play, I couldn’t swing, I couldn’t do anything. And McCoy is like, “what’s wrong?” I said, “McCoy, send me back to New York”. He asked, “Why? What happened?”. I told him “You have Lewis Nash there, I don’t need to be here, man, you got him, like a real afro-american drummer”. He said “No!!! I need you, I need you to grow with me”

Wow!

“I have nothing to teach Lewis Nash. If I wanted him, he would be here with me, but I need you, because you are gonna pass this to the next generation.

Right!

I’ll never forget this. He said, “Mela, you play with McCoy Tyner!!! Free yourself!! We play music to free our souls!” So, when McCoy died, I became a free musician.

Look at that!!!

I went to look for William Parker, Patricia Parker, Cooper Moore

Yeah, all the fathers of the Free.

All those guys. And I became part of the community. And now I haven’t grown so much in that community because once I started being part of them I left and came to Boston. But can you see that? They still remember me, they still like me, they still love me and they call me “Mela, you want to do something?” And that’s why I became a free musician. And I’m not even focused on the Cuban or the Jazz no more. Because the Cuban and the Jazz is all there, it’s all there.

I get it, yeah.

I don’t need to know the “chinkling chinkling”, or the “tumpa cutika cutukumba”,  no, no.  Let’s play free and in the free you get all that. And that video that Begoña posted reflects everything. Reflects the timba, the jazz, the freedom, you know what I mean?

I know, it’s beautiful. If listened to that video many times, yeah.

That video…, that is who I am, all ingredients right there.

Wow, man thank you so much for showing us all the history behind your life, man. And your relationship with music itself. It’s really moving, man and it really touched me a lot, thank you so much.

It’s my pleasure.

I was in fact about to ask you what was the purpose behind your music or if there was any conceptual or spiritual research behind and beyond. But I guess you’ve already almost answered that question too with everything you just said and everything that you pictured: all the moments, all the experiences with McCoy and, you know, all your life experience. So, yeah thank you so much, man. Would you give any tip any must-do or must-receive tip to young drummers nowadays. Me being one hahaha. Or even…, let me let me bet a little higher. Would you recommend us all to, you know, dive in into the free world or would you invite us to do the whole process till we get there? Or would…, yeah I don’t know…, maybe that’s a very bold question to ask but I’d like to hear your thoughts.

I can do it. You just asked me two questions. One is to give an advice for the new generation and the other is what would be the map to get to that art form of free.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, let’s start with this. I, with the experience that I’m having right now with my students and with the spirit that I had myself, I remember that when I decided to be a free musician it was because I used to play at Smalls Jazz Club in New York with these people: Eric Wyatt and Benito González and then a drummer, avant-garde drummer from the new generation, Gerald Cleaver was there and he called me and said “Mela, come here bro. You shouldn’t be…, you are not there, you are not one of them, you are one us!!”. And I said “What do you mean?”, and he goes “Bro, the way that you play is so free that you have to be a free musician!! How do you play swing like that, so crazy?” So I said “I don’t know…this is just how I do it…”, and he said “bro, I’m gonna call William Parker tomorrow and I’m gonna tell him that you need to be here, bro. We need more people like you in our side!!!”. That thing encouraged me so much that I was like wow!!! It made me feel so good that now I will tell you, it is never late to start exploring being a free musician. Why? Because jazz or to be a swinger is one style but to be free is all the styles.

Wow.

What do you want to be called? “Hey this is the swinger”. Okay, but they don’t want to call you to play only swing, you know. But when you are an avant-garde you don’t care… No, “you don’t care” is not correct. Because you have the avant-garde of the free mind, because it’s all mental, the free approach. Now if you were afraid to play swing properly, “chin-chinquilin-chinquilin…etc.”, now when you become a free musician you just play “di.dididi-dididi…etc.” If you wanna play avant-garde and you were thinking that by playing afrocuban [sings pattern], it was hard to sound like that…, now because you are an avant-garde, you play [sings other patterns, more fluid and less stiff] and you’re free. So, I recommend anyone of any age to explore it. Because for everyone it’s different and it hits deeply in a different way to anyone. The bad thing will be not to try, not to experience. But if you try and it hits you like really deeply, it’s because you… Well, something that I remember and I always share with my students is what Gary Peacock said. Gary Peacock said that when he came to New York, he was playing with a lot of people from the avant-garde music, but everybody was playing like this [stiff]. But when he met Paul Motian, he understood that avant-garde music is not something that you learn, it’s something that you are.

Oh, wow, yeah, it makes sense.

And so, maybe you don’t know, people don’t know that they are avant-garde inside.

Right.

You just have to try. Maybe you are not, and so it’s okay. That’s why I say to my students, I’m not teaching this lab or this masterclass to make you or to convert you into an avant-garde musician. I’m just sharing this with you, just to have another tool to experience music in different way. And so, I recommend free jazz music to everyone. McCoy told me “We play music to free our souls”. And let me show you this. I forgot to show you. You have one second?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right, right. I’ll hold on.

Okay, Jose, check this out [shows a vinyl record of his]. This was the first one, Music frees our souls, dedicated to McCoy Tyner, with Matthew Sheep and William Parker and myself. This is volume one. Now, volume two, with different people with Cooper Moore, the same bass player, William Parker. And then the third one.

Oh, man, amazing.

Always with a new great pianist guest and with William.

Your trio projects, right?

You remember? Oh right, you guys put this out, remember?

Right.

Yeah, this was a dedication to McCoy. Different piano players. The same bass player of Cecil Taylor, William Parker.

Yeah.

But a different piano player, just to show the versatility of McCoy. But that, Jose, is my answer to the first question. Now, I have to share you the second answer for the question about the advice for the new generation… Well, I went to the neighboring Regattabar Club here in Boston to watch and listen to Elvin Jones, here in Boston, at the Club Regattabar.

Okay.

Amazing. And I went there and I got to tell you, I didn’t understand anything because, believe it or not, even if Elvin wasn’t a free jazz musician, his approach was free.

Wow.

It’s amazing how you start to, by investigating, now the result of the calculation is that, yeah, McCoy, the way that he played, he was free, but he didn’t jump into the swimming pool.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Elvin Jones, the way that he played, all his triplets, all these things, he wasn’t playing like, like, like. Well.

Yeah, the pattern or whatever, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Exactly, he wasn’t playing like all closed.

Yeah, it’s all open.

Yeah, you know what I mean?

And I love how you’re doing all these movements because when you do like that, it’s like all rigid, and then you do all the circle movements and it’s clear you mean free and all the dancing…

Well, and so after that, I asked him “Master, Elvin, I didn’t understand what you played, but I love it, it resonates in my heart so much. What is an advice that you can give me?” and he said, “Well, you are a new drummer, let me tell you this, it’s easier to impress than to play good”. So, me dijo, es más fácil impresionar que tocar bien. “So, make sure that you play good, don’t try to impress nobody”.

Oh, beautiful. Man, look at that, no more words. No need of more words. Look at that, man. Francisco, ¡Qué placer! What a pleasure, man. I would, I would stay here longer, hours and hours hearing you talk. I think people are going to fall in love with you if they didn’t already. People are going to feel your vibe, feel your spirit, feel your kindness. And I’m so thankful for having had this brief conversation. But, you know, as we say in Spain, “lo bueno y breve, dos veces bueno”. So, good and bried is twice as good.

Right.

So, man, thank you so much. We will hand this beautiful conversation to our people here in Madrid and beyond our country, and we hope people can get to know you and your music better and that they can check you out because, if they haven’t done it already, they’re missing a very beautiful thing, and a very beautiful human being too. So, thank you so much, man. We’ll be in contact and, and we’ll try to catch up with all your Vision Festival show and all your music, all the music you put out and all the energy that you carry with yourself, man. I hope everything goes well. Uh, I wish you the best. We wish you the best from the journal, and thanks so much for tuning in, man.

My pleasure, man. It’s a, it’s an honor for me that you took a moment off your busy schedule to share with me and asking me this questions.

My pleasure, man, my pleasure.

I would love to see you in Madrid. Begoña and I…, we’ve been talking about how to get in contact. I was supposed to go but… there is a phrase in English that goes like this: It’s not about the money, it’s about the money.

Hahaha.

And so, I’m just looking for the right one who’s going to pay the right money in order for me to go there and spend time, man.

We’re looking forward to that, totally. So cool. Man, huge hugs from Madrid and see you soon, for sure. I hope that takes place soon.

Much love.

Gracias, bye.

May 30, 2025

Esperanza Spalding Interview

Esperanza Spalding Interview

ESPERANZA SPALDING INTERVIEW

Jazz Villanos

22

May, 2025

Text & Interviewer: José Cabello

Photos: Daniel Glückmann

 

Just hours before her double concert in Madrid at Sala Villanos, Esperanza Spalding granted us the honor of sitting down with her for a brief conversation about her European tour, her music, her approach to composition, and her worldview. In just a few minutes, she shared profound insights that are well worth listening to and reading.

That’s why we’re sharing the interview with you here (podcast included, as always) — so you can enjoy it as much as we did!

 

LISTEN TO THE PODCAST HERE BELOW

In&OutJazz: I’m so glad to have you, thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you so much. It’s gonna be a quick and fast interview but I have to be thankful that you’re with us. We’re from In&OutJazz journal. We are a bunch of collaborators working to give a shout out to all the artists out there that are pushing the edge, you know. And, I mean, your name, Esperanza Spalding is a huge name already for you carry on your back a huge career and we are mostly honored to have you with us, thank you so much, Esperanza.

Esperanza Spalding: Thank you.

Real quick questions, don’t worry about it, we’ll set you free in a minute. We’d like to know how you’re doing and how the tour is going. You just started. How’s Europe treating you so far? Are you excited to play in Madrid tonight?

Yeah, yeah. So far it’s been really full. We were in Bratislava, and had such a generous reception and a generous welcome with artists there, getting to reconnect with friends and musicians from, you know, 20 years ago that I hadn’t seen in almost 20 years.

How great!

And then we played Paris, two nights ago and also was like a reconvening of so many beautiful artists and musicians and thinkers that I know there who came out. And I felt that love in that. You know, it feels really good to play for people that you love and know, personally.

Amen.

Their love and their knowing pulling out your best. And I know a lot of people in Madrid as well, but I lost contact with so, I’m sort of, expecting some surprises of some I’ve known through the years here. But yeah, this duo with Morgan Guerin that we’re on tour with right now, Paris was the first night that we have performed this publicly so it’s also for us very exciting. Every song, every moment is like ooooh, because it’s so new for us. So, we’re sharing in the anticipation and curiosity as we play.

Wow, sounds super interesting. We’re really looking forward to see your show tonight. So, be sure about that. We’ll be supporting you for sure.

Thank you.

It all sounds so cool. I’m curious to know about your compositional and writing process lately. Do you write on the piano? Do you write on the bass? Do you just sing melodies and then try to work on them? I guess you’ve had an evolution throughout your whole career but let us know how it is nowadays.

Yeah that process… that’s kind of always been my process, a combination of all three things that you mentioned. Mostly I would say writing at the piano. Sometimes writing at the bass and then often yeah, you know, hearing something or having an idea and it starts in the voice and the melody and the voice imply the other parts.

Right.

So then, it’s a process of on bass or on piano, you know, building a body around the DNA and the bones of the idea. And yeah, these days I’m mostly composing things that are for a specific function, like to support a friend or a relative or to help raise funds. And what I mean by help raise funds is like, leaning into the ways that music is a very powerful mover of energy, mover of material reality. So, practicing more and more, recognizing what the need really is, you know. What is the struggle? What is the challenge? What is the thing we’re trying to do? And inviting music in as an action step, as a as a part of the process of organizing ourselves or moving our efforts towards this outcome or towards this point. So a lot of the music has really been that. Very, very practical, very functional like.

I love it.

Silly examples like the city of Portland was going to decide whether or not to let an organization called Albina One purchase…, take over an old school that’s not being used.

Okay.

So, I wrote a song for that organization, Albina One, to take to their session with the city, to have it as like a…, hopefully you know, encouraging the city to move forward with this, you know.

It is beautiful.

There’s like…, it’s very infinite and endless the applications.

I see what you mean. I have to be thankful for the fact that you’re writing music for a real purpose, you know, for real things to happen. I mean, nothing wrong about writing for transcendental things which is awesome too, but it’s beautiful that right now you’re finding your way into the intentional issues. During your writing process, do you invest more time in writing the lyrics or the music? Or is it all together at the same time?

They’re pretty all together. It just depends on what comes first. I mean, I can think of many songs on 12 Little Spells that really started more as a poem or more as like a series of images, I mean like verbal images that are created with language, you know. And recognizing like “oh okay, in this there’s a structure, or in this there’s like a journey, there’s an arc, so now what’s the music? What melodies are here? What harmonic moments are interstitial? What musical elements are going to support and maintain and deliver the integrity and the coherency of those words, or of what those words are describing.

Right, yeah, interesting. I’m gonna take a risk in this following question, I don’t want to be too bold. If I am, just let me know, but I’d really like to know how does bearing the name that you have, Esperanza, feel like nowadays, in a world where, you know, things are tearing apart, political issues are going on… Your name, especially for Spanish speakers means a lot, you know. And I really have hope that people keep holding on to having hope nowadays, which keeps us moving, you know. So, what is the engine beyond that name that you bear? And yeah, how does it feel like? Does it mean anything to you at all?

Yeah, I mean, I love my name and I love that my mom gave me this name. She was in a very challenging time in her life and found out she was pregnant, and you know, her choosing to name me Esperanza was an extension or an expression of her choosing hope in her life. Like, she decided “this journey with this child is going to be a change for me, I’m going to have hope, I’m going to have…” She decided she was going to have hope in the midst of all the crazy shit she was going through.

Look at that.

And I think that’s maybe the point I want to make. That I identify with the word, the meaning of the word as a choice that you’re making, it’s not evidence-based.

I get it.

It’s not because “oh I see that something’s gonna get better so that’s why I have hope”. It’s like you have the agency over your own hope. It doesn’t have anything to do with external factors. I think that’s also the point about faith… Well maybe hope is even different because I think faith can be evidence-based but I feel hope is more your own discipline. It’s your own discipline and your own choice of how you’re gonna show up to whatever is going on.

Definitely.

And I really don’t think and I don’t feel that hope is contingent on the outcome. It’s like a state, it’s like it’s a way you can show up to whatever is going on. And I think that can feel really hard when the things we hope for keep not happening. But I guess, I feel like my buddhist practice of Nichiren Buddhism helps me even…, helps me orient to everything that’s happening and have a kind of trust that within everything, within everything, there’s potential to create value, within everything. Even if you’ve lost everything or you’re about to die…, there’s always, even in that, in the most horrendous circumstances, we still have the power and the agency to create value. And I think deeply believing that and practicing that makes hope even less about the outcome because then it’s even more about how you’re relating to whatever is actually happening.

And you make a change, you make a change definitely.

Or maybe you don’t, but I guess that’s like a trust that in your own life, the only thing you kind of have some agency over, you can create value.

Yeah, it sounds super interesting. I know you had to catch a cab, so I don’t want to bother you anymore. It was lovely to hear you, you know, going deep into these thoughts that you were sharing right now. I’m really thankful to hear what you were saying because, you know, it also gives hope to anyone who’s going through a rough patch. And after all, I feel like music and, you know, life as you were picturing it is something that really makes a change. You were saying maybe not, but at the end, you know, all the people that will come tonight to see and experience your show and your musical ideas and your lyrics and the whole thing…, we’re going to feel something about the deep thoughts behind and beyond your music. So really thankful

Thank you! I’m so sorry again for being so late, but life is life.

No worries, no worries, Esperanza. We just hope it all goes awesome tonight. We hope you the best. It was awesome, thank you for tuning in. We hope people can go also a little deeper into your music and all your thoughts after what you were sharing right now and see you tonight. I’m hoping to see you later.

Thanks, see you tonight!

All right, have a good day, see you later.

Bye.

Bye, Esperanza, thank you so much.

May 22, 2025

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