CRAIG TABORN

Interview

 

28

November, 2025

Interview: Craig Taborn, a pianist and composer who’s somewhere above heaven

Text: José Cabello

Photos: Paulo Pacheco from Guimaraes Jazz Festival

During our time at the Cologne Jazzweek, we got to interview the great Craig Taborn. He was staying at out same hotel and we hanged for a little while having a nice conversation on different topics. In this interview, you can listen to him talk about The Weird Mouth Trio as well as his deepest thoughts on music and improvisation. We hope you enjoy both the podcast and the written article!!!

 

Listen to the PODCAST below

In&OutJAZZ Magazine: Alright, Craig Taborn in the house. We’re right now in Cologne for the Cologne Jazz Festival. He’s playing with the Weird Mouth Trio tonight. We are very excited to have you in In&Out Jazz. As you know, we’re a journal that covers all types of music, but we really are interested in the new forms of music, and the free jazz, and the experimental music…, and pretty much every kind of music that tries to avoid old forms or old visions of the music, and that considers the musicians kind of vessels for whatever music they want to express in whatever moment. And we find your art and yourself as a very, very interesting character and figure in the whole span of nowadays music.

So, we’re very, very pleased to have you. And the first question we would like to ask you is, how did the Weird Mouth Trio start, and how was the project thought about in the first place?

Craig Taborn: Yeah, well, I think, well, I’ve known Mette for quite some time, maybe more than 20 years.

Wow. 

And I’ve known Ches for maybe almost as long. But I hadn’t played with Mette really, I met her more when there was a workshop that she had organized with some danish musicians that I was teaching at 20 years ago. So, I had been playing with Ches in other people’s groups, but he had me in one of his groups too called The Bell, there was a trio with Mat Maneri.

Nice. 

And then he plays in my trio with Tomeka Reid as well. And so, Ches and I have played a lot together. And then I think I played with Mette maybe about 10 years ago when she asked me to do something in Brooklyn, just at a small space. So that’s when I sort of re-encountered her musically.

And then I think this group, The Weird of Mouth, came together because I had Stone’s residency, a John Zorn’s Stone Space where you do residencies for a week. And I think the way this one came about is I had a Stone week, and Mette was in town. And so, I invited her to play, and then I asked Ches to play. I think it was something like this that happened. So that’s just, and I was like “Oh, let’s have drummer and let’s have Ches”. And that’s maybe how it started. Not that it was, it makes it sound like it was my idea and it’s my group, which it wasn’t. It was just one of the ways that configuration happened.

Very interesting.

And then we did it, I can’t remember, we did it again, but what ended up happening is a couple years ago when Mette was in New York, we just decided to record. We said “hey, let’s go record somewhere”. And we did, and we just went to a studio and recorded the album that is out now that was released about a year ago. So, we recorded that, and then after that, when the album came out, we did some touring last year. So, it’s just something we’ve kind of kept going, kept developing. Yeah, that’s kind of how it started, but it was sort of just from the community and friends, you know, just coming together with different things.

How were the compositions born?

Well, it’s completely improvised. So, they’re born, they’re continually born each night.

That’s so great.

We don’t really, yeah, it’s definitely invested in the spontaneous composition method.

Sure. What’s the most important thing for you in the project, or more than that, what would be the thing that you’re learning with this trio?

Well, it’s always like kind of just learning the people or allowing the space for everybody to bring what they’re bringing. You know, it’s the same question with each ensemble, but because this kind of thing, because you’re inviting an equal, it’s an equal creation, you know. Like truly, there is no author, you know. It’s all of us, so you’re always kind of learning about each other, you know, like every performance. But the most important things are trust and open-minded and open-heartedness, because that’s what allows that. So, each person’s just bringing the thing, but I think, like any relationship, the first thing is you trust each other to just bring, operate openly, bring the best of what they can bring, and then you bring yourself. And you’re engaged in making those things happen, and I do find that’s just continually a learning process. But it’s not learning towards a goal, it’s just learning more about all the ways that stuff can be, you know.

Okay, that’s interesting, that’s beautiful. So, you just mentioned it’s not learning towards a goal, but is there any conceptual or spiritual aim? Is there any, you know, pursue anything you’re looking for or searching for when you guys are playing? Yeah, anything you guys or you are trying to achieve or, you know, also regarding the audience maybe, or regarding the music you expect will sound, or regarding yourselves, regarding your families, regarding your loved ones, I don’t know. Is there any, while you play or when you play, anything you guys are looking for?

Wow, that’s a big question. I think the best answer I would have for that is that each time I play, I sort of discover what I’m looking for, you know, and it can be different for this kind of music and these groups.

That’s fun.

I mean, I do think some people may come together with a goal of a sound, you know, like a concept, like “we’re going to be a loud heavy group or we’re going to be this”. But this kind of thing we really don’t, nobody talks about that. I think it’s about allowing things to be what they want to be at the time. And when you do that, then you kind of engage. Those groups can last forever because it allows change, you know, it’s like you might totally change who you are or what you’re trying to do even on your instruments, you know. And then when you come back to the group, it’s like, “oh, they’re at a different place, great, let’s engage with that”. So, it’s more about, “ok, what is it? What am I bringing?”. You see, William Parker’s music label is Centering Music. And he often talks about a center. And I think that, if I could identify anything, that’s the most important thing to bring is that you have a center and you can kind of know what your center is. But we’re in space time and beyond space time. So that can be, your center can be anywhere. So, it’s important that you bring that and then try to bring the best of that. So, I think in encountering that, that’s your centering everything. If you identify your center and the other musicians and then the audience, everything, it’s almost like a circumlocation where it’s like, “ok, I’m here, you’re here, this is you, the audience, the sound, this is how I’m feeling”. And when you create them, whatever is created in that context, and we’re all listening, becomes identifying, it’s almost like physics. It’s like this is the ultimate, maybe for this space, this is, you can identify the center and everybody sort of understands it some way, another way of understanding the relationship between everybody. And the beauty of that is if even another person enters the room, that may change. All of a sudden that’s changing, but you’re realizing all this. This is sort of a kind of a maybe overly conceptual abstraction, but somewhere in there is something like what I mean.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s very interesting… touching words, man. I think a lot of people are going to find that description interesting. Now, how would you describe the scene? Because you’re based in Brooklyn, right? How would you describe it’s scene? Are you thankful for what you are surrounded by?

I’ve seen a lot of scenes around, so my sense of it is, in many ways, even a larger scene, because it’s so global to me, because I have friends all over the place. But to focus on just even the area of New York or in Brooklyn, there’s so many, I think there’s a lot of interesting musicians, especially among younger musicians. There’s a lot of really interesting creativity going on right now, and there are quite a few places where it’s happening. There’s a lot of places where people are playing music. Nothing is incredibly lucrative, you know. Nobody’s making tons of money, but there are so many, like any given night, there are a lot of people doing concerts, whether it’s in somebody’s living room or in a small bar or club or lounge or in a concert space.

A lot of music going on, right?

All the time, yeah.

A lot of initiatives.

Like, if you go there, it’s like, if you’re into creative music, it’s like, “oh, there’s ten things to go see tonight, like right now”. And it’s like, whoa. And it’s all at a certain level are pretty interesting.

Would you give us a couple names of places and young people that you are looking up to? 

Oh, wow. I mean, I guess there are a lot. There are so many. I mean, a number of them are here.

Maybe you can go just for the venues if you don’t want to…

Well, yeah, I mean, I could say, yeah, because it gets weird and then you start admitting people. And yeah, it’s a long list, but I’m aware there’s little places like in Brooklyn, let’s just say Brooklyn. So there’s a place, Close Up, that’s in Lefferts Gardens area, there’s a place where jazz, there’s a place Ornithology, there’s a place, a little place, Barbes, where there’s some stuff. There’s a little bar, Lowlands, that a lot of people play at, Tim Berne kind of almost has a weekly thing there. There’s a space, it’s called 411. Actually, their space has been renovated, so they’ve been moving around. And then there’s the bigger places like Roulette and there’s Issue Project Room, which is quite a pioneer works or. Well, that’s already a lot.

Yeah, we got to be thankful for the fact that there are a lot of venues that open up the doors to these kind of projects and these kind of ideas, creative music going on. Because that keeps us all happy, really. It gives motivation to everyone that follows the music that you guys do. All right, let’s go for the last question, man. How would you, if you were to think of a concept, what concept would describe better your improvisations?

I don’t know how to… I don’t know, because I mean, so much of that is just dependent. I mean, being an improvisation, it’s so context dependent. So, there is no grand. Well, I guess an answer would be multivalent. It’s about being able to apply yourself to any variety of situations and see the different ways that things are connecting. So that would be the grand. I was about to say I couldn’t answer it because it was about that. So, I guess that’s what it is.

Yeah, there you go. There you go. I love the answer, man.

So that was all, man. Craig Taborn, thank you so much for this interview. We’re looking forward to seeing you tonight and see the trio doing great things as always. And yeah, let’s just hope you guys have a lot of fun and enjoy as we’re always doing when we listen to you guys. 

Fantastic, man.

Thank you so much. Thank you, Craig. Have a good day, man.

Great, you too. See you later.

RODRIGO RECABARREN

Interview

 

26

Noviembre, 2025

Texto: Pedro Andrade

Fotos: Carlos Linero

Desde Nueva York, donde vive desde 2009, el baterista chileno Rodrigo Recabarren se ha consolidado como una de las voces más singulares del jazz contemporáneo. Formado en la Universidad de Nueva York y con una trayectoria que combina colaboraciones con figuras como Perico Sambeat, proyectos propios como Recabarren, Menares, Vázquez o Peregrinos y un constante diálogo entre el jazz y el folclore latinoamericano, Recabarren ha sabido transformar su identidad migrante en un lenguaje musical propio, lleno de frescura y autenticidad.

En esta conversación con In&OutJAZZMagazine, nos habla de su llegada a la escena neoyorquina, de la vitalidad de la comunidad chilena en el mundo, de su relación con España y de cómo sus raíces siguen marcando el pulso de una carrera en expansión.

 

In&OutJAZZ Magazine: Rodrigo, llevas en Estados Unidos, en Nueva York, desde 2009. ¿Por qué decidiste dar ese salto y dejar tu tierra? ¿Fue por la cuna del jazz, por estudios?

Rodrigo Recabarren: Sí, fue principalmente por estudios. Me gané una beca para la Universidad de Nueva York e hice un máster en jazz performance entre 2009 y 2010. Antes había estudiado percusión clásica en Chile, pero cuando decidí dedicarme de lleno a la batería y al jazz empecé a investigar opciones. Vine en 2007, visité varias universidades, y al final conseguí quedarme.
Además, mi pareja de entonces —hoy mi esposa— se vino conmigo, y eso nos ayudó a establecernos aquí. Todo empezó a encajar y finalmente nos quedamos.

¿Cómo fueron tus primeros pasos en la escena de Nueva York?

Al principio toqué con gente de la universidad, muchos de los cuales siguen siendo amigos y compañeros de música hoy. Como tantos músicos que llegan aquí, empezamos tocando incluso en la calle. Nueva York tiene una comunidad inmensa: músicos de todas partes del mundo, y muchos latinoamericanos.
En particular, la comunidad chilena fue bastante activa hacia 2015 y 2016, éramos un grupo numeroso, organizábamos cosas juntos y nos apoyábamos mucho. Chile es un país con gran tradición musical, así que no sorprende encontrar chilenos en todas partes del mundo.

Este año estuviste nominado al Premio Pulsar en Chile. ¿Qué significó para ti?

Fue muy emocionante. Nunca me habían nominado a nada como solista. Había estado en otras nominaciones con proyectos colectivos, como Peregrinos, Murals o con una Big Band, pero nunca a título personal.
Llevo quince años fuera y fue muy importante sentir que en mi país se reconoce lo que hago. Para mí Chile sigue siendo esencial: mi familia, mis amigos, mi música, mi tierra.

¿Sueles regresar a Chile a tocar? Sí, voy todos los años, ojalá más de una vez. Participo en festivales, proyectos de amigos, y muchas veces sirvo de puente: conecto a músicos de allá con otros de acá. Esa red de colaboración es algo que siempre me ha gustado del jazz: compartir, generar lazos, crear juntos.

Hablemos de tu conexión con España y en particular con Perico Sambeat. Colaboraste en su disco Atlantis (2021), ¿cómo surgió?

Fue gracias al bajista Alexis Cuadrado, que me recomendó para una gira en España. Allí tocamos en el Café Central, en Jimmy Glass, en Almendralejo, y grabamos Atlantis. Luego llegó la pandemia y el disco salió en medio de todo eso, así que no pudimos hacer mucho.
Pero quedé muy conectado con Perico. Cuando planeamos la gira con mi trío junto a Pablo y Yago, surgió la idea de invitarlo y fue una experiencia increíble. Tocamos música de nuestro disco Familia, pero también de Atlantis, que hasta entonces casi no se había presentado en vivo.

Tu música refleja influencias del folclore chileno. ¿Cómo se da ese cruce con el jazz contemporáneo?

Creo que tiene que ver con la experiencia del migrante. Mientras más tiempo estás lejos, más echas de menos tu tierra. En Nueva York venía a estudiar el folclore norteamericano, pero todos me preguntaban por mi música, por la chilena.
Empecé a explorarla más, primero con Raimundo Santander en Peregrinos, luego en otros proyectos. Incorporé ritmos e instrumentos latinoamericanos en mi forma de tocar. Y poco a poco entendí que no se trataba de imitar a Tony Williams o Elvin Jones, sino de dejar salir quién soy. Eso le dio sentido a mi identidad artística.

Tienes varios proyectos activos: Familia, Peregrinos, colaboraciones… ¿En qué estás más centrado ahora?

Principalmente en el trío con Pablo y Yago. Con ellos llevo más de doce años tocando y seguimos creciendo juntos.
Además, sigo trabajando con Raimundo en Peregrinos, donde reimaginamos música de Violeta Parra o Víctor Jara como si fueran estándares de jazz. También participo en proyectos como fusion bands sin bajo, con vibráfono, guitarra y batería, o en colaboraciones como la que hicimos con Ángel Parra (hijo de Violeta) y el hijo de este, durante la pandemia.
Y, por supuesto, colaboro como sideman en grupos de músicos como Guillermo Klein o Elsa Nilsson.

Hace poco tocaste en el Lincoln Center. ¿Cómo fue esa experiencia?

Increíble. Es una institución gigantesca y muy respetada. Te tratan de maravilla, el sonido es espectacular, y tocar con el skyline de Nueva York y Central Park detrás es algo único.
Además, tengo la suerte de trabajar allí en un programa de enseñanza de jazz para niños, lo que también me conecta con otra faceta muy importante de la música: la educación.

¿Qué diferencias encuentras entre la escena del jazz en Estados Unidos y en Europa?

En Europa siento que hay más tiempo para procesar lo que pasa, una vida más tranquila, instituciones que apoyan la formación y un público muy cálido. En Estados Unidos el nivel técnico es altísimo y la exigencia muy fuerte, aunque también hay mucha experimentación, especialmente en lugares alternativos de Brooklyn.
Creo que al final cada escena refleja la cultura que la rodea.

¿Piensas volver a instalarte en Chile en algún momento?

No lo sé. Me encantaría vivir en un lugar más tranquilo en el futuro, pero de momento estoy aquí, donde están mis proyectos y mi vida musical.

¿Qué proyectos tienes a corto plazo? ¿Te veremos en España de nuevo pronto?

Ojalá. La idea es volver a España el próximo año, pero prefiero no adelantar nada hasta que esté confirmado. Soy poco supersticioso, pero cada vez que digo algo antes de tiempo, se cae (risas).

Rodrigo, gracias por esta conversación.

Gracias a ustedes. Ha sido un placer.

ÁLVARO DEL VALLE

Interview

 

4

Noviembre, 2025

Interview: Álvaro del Valle, one of the great young artists and composers in the Avant-garde of Spain

Text: José Cabello

Photos: Artist’s Concession

Hemos tenido el inmenso de placer de quedar con Álvaro del Valle a comer, charlar y conocernos mejor por nuestra querida ciudad de Madrid. En esta breve entrevista, el compositor polifacético nos comparte cuestiones valiosísimas, desde las relacionadas con su último trabajo publicado bajo el título Agua, hasta su cosmovisión, sus ideas sobre composición e improvisación…etc.

¡Os invitamos a leerla con calma para aprender de este artistazo, así como a escuchar directamente su voz en el podcast!

Listen to the PODCAST below

In&OutJazz: Álvaro del Valle.

Álvaro del Valle: ¿Qué tal, José?

Qué gusto estar juntos en un día tan bonito en Madrid, y con una persona tan bonita, curiosa e interesante. Tu trayectoria es larga, con una formación bastante completa en universidades de renombre tanto en Europa como en el extranjero. Has tenido una estancia también en Nueva York. Eres docente, productor, compositor, músico, guitarrista…etc. Tocas todos los palos, muchos instrumentos, incluso los modulares, la española, la eléctrica… Digamos que eres un músico súper completo. La lista de colaboraciones con otros artistas es inmensa también. Y no solo músicos, sino también gente del mundo audiovisual y de las artes dramáticas. Por todo esto y más, eres un perfil que a In&OutJazz siempre le ha hecho sentir orgullo, al ser de cuna española. En este ratito nos encantaría conocer más tu último trabajo publicado, titulado Agua.

Cuéntanos por qué lo has titulado Agua, cuál es la idea general del disco, si hay algún concepto detrás del disco y de los nombres de los temas, porque son muy curiosos.

Sí, claro. He querido plasmar una serie de influencias que he tenido en términos generales y que engloban mi trayectoria dentro del jazz que  me acercó a la música improvisada desde el principio. Desde que empecé a tocar jazz más tradicional hasta ahora que estoy metido dentro del entorno del jazz contemporáneo. Y todo ello he querido mezclarlo con otra de mis grandes influencias, la electrónica, que es algo que yo he ido acogiendo cada vez más en mis propias carnes. La vida me ha ido llevando por ahí y me he ido juntando con una serie de artistas que están relacionados también con la electroacústica y con los nuevos medios, la programación y todo este mundillo. Así que he querido juntar todas las herramientas que tengo a mi disposición, tanto el lado de la improvisación con el instrumento y la estética compositiva del jazz contemporáneo, que me gusta mucho, como algunos timbres y sonoridades de la electrónica. Esta ha sido la premisa: mezclar una de mis formas preferidas de hacer música, la improvisación y la comunicación en el jazz, con otra de mis formas preferidas también, el diseño sonoro de la electrónica.

Y el disco toma el nombre de la primera composición, que me parecía muy representativa de la sonoridad que quería alcanzar, Agua. Tal y como el agua es un fluido, la estructura de la canción que abre el disco da pie a poder hacer muchas cosas a nivel rítmico y fluir si también como un río. La forma en que los músicos improvisan en el tema se acerca mucho a la sensación que me provoca a mí el elemento de la naturaleza que es el agua. Los músicos captaron el título del tema y a la hora de tocar, tocan de esa forma también, como un poco pensando en una cierta paleta rítmica.

Es un término y un elemento de la naturaleza que evoca muchas cosas, desde luego. En cambio ¿de Silence, Clouds o The Waiting?

Pues todo eso viene de mi gusto por estar en contacto con la naturaleza que me inspira mucho al hacer música. Se trata de captar ciertos paisajes en los que he ido viviendo últimamente y convertirlos en música.

¡Qué interesante! ¡Hablemos un poco del elenco, vaya musicazos! Te diré que yo, hablando desde el lado de los que amamos la música de nuestro país y estamos al tanto de lo que venís haciendo los diferentes músicos, y artistas, que sois unos cracks, cuando yo vi el elenco me sorprendió. Dije, ¡qué manera de cocinar! ¡Qué mezcla más interesante. Naíma Acuña en la batería, Reinier Elizarde al contrabajo, Íñigo Ruiz de Gordejuela al piano y luego las colaboraciones del grandísimo Román Filiu y de Zoe Celeste, que la verdad que me ha sorprendido muchísimo la voz de esta cantante. Cuéntanos un poco por qué ellos.

Pues cuando estaba imaginando la estética de la música que quería transmitir, pensé en ellos en primera instancia.

¿Directamente? ¿Te vinieron ellos a la cabeza? 

Sí, sí, sí.

Entiendo que has tocado con ellos en muchos contextos y les conoces, claro.

Sí, sí. Bueno, con Naíma vengo tocando muchísimos años. Con Reinier también. Nos conocemos desde hace mucho tiempo y hemos coincidido alguna vez, pero es verdad que él suele estar con mucho lío. Pero en Madrid hemos coincidido algunas poquitas veces, y es un contrabajista que admiro por el sonido que tiene y también la claridad que tiene tocando. Por otro lado también Ínigo, que me parece una pasada también, porque toca con una claridad y un sonido tremendo y maravilloso. Además, yo la música la compongo en el piano, entonces tener un pianista que tenga ese sonido con tanta presencia es algo que valoro mucho.

Fíjate, no sabía que componías al piano. ¿Siempre es así?

Sí, porque yo me inspiro mucho en artistas del jazz contemporáneo, como pueden ser ahora mismo Ambrose, o Immanuel Wilkins, o pianistas como Aaron Parks o Robert Glasper que llevo escuchando durante mucho tiempo.

Estos últimos sí son pianistas.

Claro, cuando compongo me inspiro mucho en pianistas, y ya no solo a la hora de componer, sino a la hora de tocar con la guitarra también.

¡Qué pasada! ¡Qué interesante!

Me inspiro mucho en formas que tienen los pianistas de tocar, en los registros que utilizan. Así que contar con Íñigo ha sido una maravilla. Quería un pianista que fuese a sonar ahí bien claro y fue maravilloso. Y bueno, pues Zoe es tremenda, la verdad. También habíamos coincidido alguna vez y era como que tenía la forma de cantar que buscaba y además artísticamente conectamos mucho. Respecto a la música que yo compongo y la música que ella canta también, el cómo lo hace y cómo lo interpreta, justo me pareció la persona idónea, y la verdad es que lo ha clavado. Y bueno, Román Filiú, ya ni te cuento. La verdad es que estoy muy contento con el resultado.

Es una pasada. Yo creo que nos cautiva el sonido del disco a cualquiera desde el principio, con cómo suena. Y si eso es lo que uno encuentra en el agua, ¡que sea eso! ¿Qué dirías que aprendes de ellos en este disco? ¿Qué aprendizaje sacas en concreto de cada uno de ellos?

¿De cada uno de los músicos? Primero, la predisposición que han tenido siempre para hacer música. Eso siempre es algo que me llama mucho.

Siempre intento rodearme de músicos que tienen ese amor y esa pasión por la música que están haciendo. Y que luego cuando tú les transmites tus ideas, siempre están ahí como para hacerlas funcionar y para hacerlas sonar bien.  Esto está por encima de todo.

Y en concreto estos músicos yo creo que también han llegado a hacer música a ese nivel y con esa expresión gracias a que tienen ese interés y esas ganas de querer transmitir y trabajar tu música.

¡Qué bueno! Nos has mencionado alguna de las claves de tu método compositivo cuando comentabas que escribes en el piano, pero… ¿Cómo has compuesto el disco? Porque uno se lanza a escucharlo de arriba a abajo. Son 23 minutos, que a uno podría parecerle algo breve, pero es súper intenso. Y son 23 minutos en donde te encuentras una primera composición, como es Agua, con esas sonoridades, con esas interacciones, con esa forma de improvisar. Y de repente, inmediatamente después, aparece Silence que es un mundo sonoro completamente diferente. Al oyente le llevas de un mundo a otro, mundos preciosos los dos, mundos en los que yo me quedaría viviendo toda mi vida, pero me los das los dos a la vez. Y luego aparecen temas con obligados rítmicos o secciones así más obligadas al final en las codas, como los dos siguientes. Entonces, ¿cómo has compuesto este disco? ¿Ha sido a lo largo de mucho tiempo? ¿Ha sido un producto de un trabajo reducido en el tiempo, en una semana, en meses? ¿Era una idea que tenías de siempre? ¿Han sido motivos? ¿Es pura improvisación tuya que terminas grabando? ¿Cómo es?

Bueno, en realidad hay otra parte del disco que voy a ir sacando poco a poco.

Toma ya, que nos esperan más minutos de gozadera.

Sí, hay unos tres temitas que van a salir para expandir también los 25 minutos, pero he querido sacarlos por separado también porque me parecía que esta primera parte estaba bien así y no quería extenderlo más y quería sacar otra parte. Y bueno, pues con respecto a la composición, pues compuse todos los temas cuando tuve la fecha del estudio como un año antes o algo así, que sirvió para ponerme de objetivo componer el disco y tenerlo para grabar.

Ah, qué bueno. O sea, ¿fijaste la fecha del estudio?

Fijé la fecha y luego compuse. Hay un tema, The Waiting, que sí lo tenía maquetado de antes un poco, pero el resto los hice para el disco, sí. Entonces, al componer he podido concebir el disco entero de principio a fín. Realmente el disco lo puedes escuchar como si fuese un único tema entero. De manera que el segundo tema, por ejemplo, es consecutivo del primero ya que enlaza muy bien la armonía. Además he querido jugar con la tímbrica, para generar diferentes paisajes y crear como una variedad que lleva al oyente por diferentes lugares. Entonces hay algunos temas que los he compuesto en la forma un poco más tradicional de componer, a través de partituras y demás. Y otros temas como, por ejemplo, Silence, que ha sido pura producción. Grabé el piano en el estudio, produje una base con diferentes elementos, distintas percusiones electrónicas y demás. Y luego le pasé la base a Zoe y ella cantó la letra encima. Al utilizar distintos métodos compositivos se han dado diferentes resultados. En el fondo ha consistido en combinar diferentes métodos para conseguir más variedad. Incluso con el último tema, que es la última versión de Silence, con un formato más cercano a la canción, donde simplemente hay un vamp, una letra y el resto tocamos encima.

 

¡Qué interesante! Hay una cosa que también yo creo que nos sorprende a todos cuando te conocemos y es que para este disco en concreto y seguramente para lo que venga después, tú que eres muy polifacético, no solo tocas la guitarra, no solo haces produces bases, sino que además produces el disco entero, lo mezclas… no sé si también lo has masterizado tú.

Sí, sí, lo mastericé yo.

Y suena una bomba, es un cañón. Entonces, ¿cómo haces esto? ¿Cómo es posible que confluyan tantas habilidades en ti y que den un resultado tan bueno? ¿Cómo es este proceso? El proceso de concebir y abarcar todas y cada una de las etapas de un disco, desde su concepción, su composición, hasta su masterización. Todas centralizadas en tu persona. O sea, ¿no te has vuelto loco?

No, no. Porque lo tenía claro y ha sido sencillo y fácil. Todo esto al final viene como resultado de estar durante mucho tiempo interesado por muchas cosas, por diferentes campos que no solo implican el tocar, sino producir música también, o la mezcla, el mastering, todo lo que tiene que ver con la producción en sí. Me encuentro en un punto en el que todo lo que sé confluye de manera que me ayuda a poder hacer sonar el disco como yo quiero y a aportar una serie de texturas, timbres, paisajes sonoros, cambiar de uno a otro y que yo sea el que toma las decisiones y responsable de lo que sucede. Porque hay veces también que uno crea la música y compone y demás, y luego graba y esa música pasa por manos de otro ingeniero, y luego otro  y después otro y eso cambia la música a veces. Son eslabones que pueden hacer que el resultado cambie y quizás puede que no se adecue a lo que tú quieres o a lo que tú estás buscando como compositor. Entonces, en este caso, he decidido hacerlo yo para conseguir el sonido que buscaba.

Es un don grande, que puede ser fruto de la formación y tal, pero yo diría que es un don y un talento grande tener en la cabeza y en el corazón la panorámica general de lo que uno quiere. Porque muchas veces uno se encuentra con las cosas y las descubre de manera diferente como las había pensado, ¿no? Pero es curioso como cuentas que desde un principio tú tienes esa familiaridad con lo que resultará ser luego tu hijo, ¿sabes lo que te digo? Sin ver la primera ecografía, ¿me entiendes? 

Jajajaja. Sí, sí, son muchos años de prueba y error también. O sea, con el tiempo, a base de crear, crear, crear y crear, uno practica esa creación o lleva esa creación a cabo para conseguir, cada vez más, parecerse a lo que uno tiene en mente en un principio.

En diferentes ocasiones cuando hemos hablado me has contado cómo concibes la improvisación. Ya has empezado desde el principio contándonos que es una cuestión clave para ti. ¿Cómo la concibes? Porque muchas veces nos has dicho que piensas en ritmos. Muchas veces nos has dicho que piensas en el espacio que te dejan los otros músicos y en la interacción que puedas generar. Muchas veces dices “no, no, yo lo que toco es lo que he escuchado de otro que ha tocado antes que yo”. Y tantas veces nos cuentas que en todo caso si hay algo que pienses o que cantes dentro es, más que otra cosa, ritmo. Entonces, melodía, armonía…, o sea, ¿cómo es Álvaro del Valle improvisando? ¿Cómo lo viven tus dedos? ¿Cómo lo vive tu cabeza?

Pues, mucha melodía también. Durante mi formación, y me refiero a todo el tiempo que he dedicado con el instrumento, me han ido llamando la atención diferentes cosas en cada momento. Fíjate que al principio me llamaba más la atención lo complejo y cada vez me ha ido llamando menos la atención y ha pasado a ser lo sencillo lo que más me atrae. He pasado por diferentes etapas, pero bueno, al final, habiendo dedicado mucho tiempo a explorar música más compleja, y es algo que sigo haciendo evidentemente dentro de los proyectos en los que estoy donde la música bebe más de la estética contemporánea… también ésta informa mi acercamiento al instrumento, a la improvisación y a mi lenguaje. Al final es cómo conseguir que esa complejidad forme parte de un discurso para crear como una estética.

Y sí, ha habido una etapa de mi vida en la que me he fijado más en melodías muy sencillas y eso ha influido en mi tocata, de hecho, si tú pones lo que yo toco a un tempo lento te vas a dar cuenta de que son consecuciones de melodías muy sencillas y que no estoy tampoco inventando nada. A la hora de improvisar intento cantar lo que estoy haciendo y escuchar a los demás para luego poder contestar a eso que están haciendo ellos. Y esto es importante, la improvisación la entiendo como si fuese todo un global donde mi instrumento es una parte de toda la música que está sonando y yo lo que estoy aplicando es un timbre y unas texturas a toda esa composición que es todo este paisaje. Entonces puede no haber guitarra también y eso está bien, y de hecho cuando un instrumento suena durante un tiempo y de repente se calla pues se crea otra cosa totalmente diferente. Como que incluso dejando de tocar o tocando también lo entiendo como si fuese parte de la orquestación, que no es tanto pensar la improvisación como “mi momento”, sino que lo pienso como un todo, como capas. Entonces cuando dejo espacios y demás también lo entiendo como parte de esa orquestación.

¡Qué pasada! En lugar de decir “ahora toca mi plato, ahora yo soy el plato principal”, piensas que siempre eres un ingrediente.

Eso es.

¡Qué guapo!

Digamos que tu instrumento tiene diferentes roles…

No, metodológicamente esto lo cambia todo y es súper interesante. 

Son conceptos que yo he ido aprendiendo de la producción, por ejemplo.

Sí, porque ahí estás obligado a tratar el global de alguna manera.

Sí, sí. Y la gente que toca que tengo como referencia y que me gusta, pues veo que tienen estas cosas en cuenta.

¡Qué interesante! Te voy a preguntar ahí ya la última cuestión que me interesaría saber. ¿Hay en tu música, en tu arte, en tu búsqueda artística, en tu pulsión por componer, en todo tu ente artístico (que entiendo que coincide con tu persona también, porque son siempre cosas muy complejas) una búsqueda espiritual, conceptual, una intencionalidad, algún deseo de cambio de algo? Si lo hay, nos lo cuentas. Y si no, claro, en el fondo, ¿qué le querrías decir tú al oyente cuando sacas tu música, cuando haces las cosas? ¿Qué relación desearías establecer con el oyente? Porque entiendo que al oyente le interesaría también saber qué tiene Álvaro del Valle dentro, qué busca Álvaro del Valle con estas cosas.

Sí, entiendo. Claro, podemos entenderlo de muchas formas. Cada uno interpreta a su manera y cada artista tiene también sus motivaciones. Hay motivaciones políticas por ejemplo, que al final también son artísticas que entran dentro de la política impepinablemente, porque el arte también es una forma de hacer política. En mi caso, yo lo que quiero y busco, de alguna forma, es reivindicar el hecho de tener una intencionalidad, de hacer las cosas con una intención particular, como que las cosas sean hechas con autenticidad. Revindico las cosas hechas con fundamento, con un conocimiento de causa y de dónde vienen las cosas.

Sí, con rigor, con criterio.

Mira que me falta mucho por aprender, como a todo el mundo, pero yo siempre me quiero informar del cómo y del dónde vienen las cosas. La música es un ejemplo, porque solo es técnica, armonía, escalas y todo esto, sino que también implica una historia, porque la música viene de largo, es decir. Y no me refiero a la clásica, insisto en que viene de siglos y siglos atrás. Hay músicas que son ancestrales de las cuales seguimos bebiendo hoy en día. La base a través de la cual nos estamos comunicando, que es el ritmo, viene de una tradición que es ancestral. Con todo esto en el corazón y echando mano de los medios que tenemos hoy en día y los timbres que representan más específicamente la actualidad y por tanto a mi persona, ya que me siento representado por la etapa en la que vivo, he querido también conservar eso, ese vínculo con la música a nivel más profundo. Es algo que me ha interesado durante mucho tiempo; esa comunicación a través del ritmo, que es lo que hay en común entre muchas músicas folclóricas, como por ejemplo el flamenco o las músicas espirituales africanas o la música de la India. Siempre tienen ese común denominador, que es la comunicación a través del ritmo. Entonces yo he querido preservar eso y he querido reivindicarlo y decir “oye, que cuando hacemos música también hay que ver de dónde vienen las cosas y hacer un esfuerzo por conocer esa tradición”.

¡Qué bueno, tío! ¡Qué lección! Totalmente, qué interesante. Yo creo que esto corrige, en el sentido más fraternal de la palabra, a todos los que te escuchen, porque es importante.

Sí, claro, porque también es preservar cultura.

No, y que luego uno se siente mucho más realizado. O sea, uno se siente más realizado cuando se acerca al objeto y lo conoce más que cuando lo conoce de manera superficial. Totalmente de acuerdo.

Sí, sí.

¡Qué bueno, Álvaro! Pues muchísimas gracias por esta conversación breve. Le invitamos a todo el mundo a ir a escuchar Agua, el último proyecto publicado de Álvaro. Tienes muchísima música que la gente chequee. Lo pondremos ahí, tus redes, tu web, todas las colaboraciones que has hecho. Y tenemos que estar atentos porque vendrá música nueva, porque hay que estar atentos para pillarte en los conciertos en directo, en los festivales en los que puedas estar programado. Te apoyamos de manera íntima y agradecida, la verdad, desde In&OutJazz y yo personalmente también, ya lo sabes. Y, tío, enhorabuena, porque has hecho un trabajazo increíble e impecable con tus compis músicos y la verdad es que da gusto. Es bellísimo, así que gracias.

Genial, muchas gracias. Muchas gracias a vosotros también por la ayuda, también la difusión que estáis haciendo de los artistas. Y nada, que esperemos vernos prontito en la presentación.

A gozar, a gozar. Grande, Álvaro, gracias. 

Gracias, chao Jose.

JEFF WILLIAMS

Interview

 

07

October, 2025

Interview: Jeff Williams

Text: José Cabello

Photos: Vilma Dobilaite

After enjoying his performances at Café Central and Jimmy Glass, Jeff Williams granted us a fascinating conversation. In the interview, he shares his vision on music, on performing live and recording in the studio, on the challenges musicians face, and on the role of the audience in live music, among many other topics. Jeff spoke to us with total honesty and openness — something we deeply appreciate.

Here’s the full interview, along with the podcast as always. We hope you enjoy it as much as we did!

Listen to the PODCAST below

In&OutJazz: Thank you, man, for tuning in. It’s a pleasure for us to host you. You met us already through Begoña. We’re an independent journal based in Madrid, but with a lot of collaborators all around the world trying to connect with all you artists out there that are or have been doing great things in your careers. And it’s a pleasure to have you as a very special guest. Because your name and your career and the legends you’ve played with…, I mean, the list is enormous. And man, for us, it’s just an honor to have you with us. So, thank you so much for tuning in.

Jeff Williams: Well, thank you so much for having me.

It’s so great, so great. Before we get into the deep, I’d like to know how you’re doing and what are you up to, what’s in the pot for the summer? How are you feeling?

Well, just coming off of that rather lengthy tour, many hours in the car, long drives. It was really fun. So, I’m going to New York shortly, and I’ll be there for a while. Not doing much, just kind of cooling it until the fall, and then things pick up again.

Nice, man. Sounds cool. Sounds interesting. Do you like the environment in New York? Is it a city you like to stay at?

Yeah, I mean, it’s the place I’ve been more than any other place in my life, so it’s still home. Yeah, and I love Lisbon, too. And in a way, it’s kind of ridiculous to leave Lisbon in the middle of the summer and go to New York, but it’s largely because of my wife. She likes to go to New York, and she has a tennis partner, and they play every summer, and she looks forward to that, and they play four times a week. And so, if I want to see her, I have to go there. And we’ve been away from each other quite a bit in the last six months.

It’s good to make time for that.

It’s good, too. And there’s a lot of stuff happening, you know, a lot of music to hear, and getting together with friends and playing. I don’t really have any gigs, but we get together and have sessions and catch up with what everybody’s doing, you know.

That’s awesome, man.

I’m looking forward to that.

That’s what really builds our hearts and our souls.

Exactly, yes.

It’s not just touring, you know. I mean, I’m glad that you’re going to have your time with your loved ones and, you know, just hanging around in the best sense. That’s cool, man. I’m happy for that. It’s been a couple of weeks now, but how did you enjoy joining Luis Nacht’s trio with Leo Genovese, also here at the Café Central?

Well, the gig in Madrid was amazing because Leo was with us, and that brought us up several notches, I think. And the music was amazing, and the audience was amazing, and the whole environment. It was really hot in every sense.

That’s cool.

We managed to hit the heat wave in Spain, for sure.

I know, man. It’s crazy here, especially in Madrid, you know. It’s a dry, dry weather in summer, so it’s always kind of…

It was shocking.

It’s like a heavy, you know, feeling, sensation. It’s kind of ridiculous. But music stands above all these, you know…

It’s true, yeah. Well, in addition to Madrid, we really had a lot of fun in the various places we went.

You guys were at Valencia, right, or not?

Yeah, yeah. And Jimmy Glass is always fun. It was packed there, the audience was great.

It’s a very warm place, yeah. It’s very nice. So glad, man. What’s the thing you, if there’s anything, that you learned most from your days here in Spain? And especially in music terms, you know, playing with these guys. What would the thing that you would go “man, I feel like I learned these two things”, or “I just kept learning, whatever”. I mean, just a couple of things.

I always keep learning. And also, we recorded, before Valencia. That’s always a learning experience, too. Because we had played the music a bit, and then suddenly you’re in the studio, and it’s just you and the engineer. And you don’t have the help of the audience interacting with you. So how do you generate the energy, the vibe of the live situation? And we did. We did. And if anything, because we had recorded at the same studio before, the recording that… We were supposed to have CDs to sell. And I guess the person making them thought it was July and not June. So, we didn’t have them with us. I don’t know if you have one. But the difference between that recording and what we just did is quite noticeable, just in terms of energy. And the way the trio has figured out how we relate to each other musically. So, there was that. I mean, what I learned is that I have a short temper when it comes to bad equipment and bad situations.

I get it, man.

We had one where I was relegated to playing a very large rock set with the black dotted heads.

Oh, black dotted heads, man. 

It might have been a 24’’, I’m not sure.

Oh, shit.

Yeah. And so, it was not in a very good working order either. And I kind of lost it. And generally, I’m pretty open. Well, I’ll tune the drums, I’ll make them work. But sometimes they won’t work, no matter what you do. And it was just kind of embarrassing, really.

Whereas, not to anyone else. And so, I kind of snapped a little bit there. And so, I have to learn to be more accepting, I think.  I’m a little bit spoiled, because in the old days, we traveled with our own drums. That was not easy, but you could get them on a plane. As long as you, you know, maybe one of the musicians would carry your snare drum or something. You know, you figured out how to do it. Because places you would go, they didn’t really have drum sets, or they had terrible equipment. And these days, most people have good equipment, most of the clubs. But every once in a while, you might run into something that it’s not… Just got to work with it, you know?

Right.

So, I learned something about my threshold of tolerance.

Oh, man. That’s deep.

Not as high as it should be, you know?

That’s deep. I feel like we’re all always searching to be humbler in these situations. But still, it’s good to have, as you were mentioning, a threshold, you know, it’s good to be a little aware about these things and, you know, make your point when you have to. But it’s nice that you’re still open to learn these things which have to do with life in general, not just music. So, it’s nice, man.

Absolutely, yeah. And you get older, you get cranky, too, you know? Got to watch out.

Yeah. And, yeah, that applies to us all. So, it’s good to hear yourself trying to take care of these things, man.

You were talking about the audience’s interaction during your gigs and stuff. How do you understand the role of the audience? How’s your interaction with them? How’s your relationship with the audience? How do you feel their vibes? Is it something you rely on? Is it something you don’t really think about that much? Is it something you’re always expecting to connect with? How’s your relationship with the audience?

Well, when I’m playing, I’m not thinking, right? So, you know, that’s something I learned a long time ago, because you can’t do both. So, there’s a kind of place that I go to where I’m just receiving the music. And in doing so, it’s telling me what to play.

Wow. 

And it’s not as if I play with my eyes closed because I want to maintain contact with the people I’m playing with, but also the audience. You know, I’ll look out, but I’m not having thoughts. I’m not saying, “oh, I wonder, oh, there’s somebody over there, I wonder what they think or if they like it or whatever”. It’s more something you can feel. And one of the things, you know, that’s an old adage, if people are not tapping their feet, then you’re not doing your job. You know? If they’re not getting the rhythm.

Right.

And then, as was the case at Café Central in Madrid, the audience, well, we had a lot of friends there. So, I think we had people… Because the staff, the waiters and so on, just loved what we were doing and said, you know, “we never hear music like this”. It just kept going higher and higher and higher. And meanwhile, our friends were cheering. And so, the people that maybe came in expecting something more sedate were swept along with it. And so, they were caught up in the wave of enjoyment that our friends were having. And as a result, we were getting this sort of wave of give and take with the audience that was spurring us on, you know? And you can feel that. And that gives you the “impetus to go higher”, as Sly Stone used to say. And if you look at, I want to take you higher, Sly Stone, that’s what he was saying. He says, give me more. And together, we can go higher with this, you know?

Cool, man. That’s so cool. Sounds amazing trying to connect with people in a way where they also write the music in that moment, they also conceive it. It’s nice.

It’s also, I mean, it’s entertainment, right? People used to understand this a little bit more. Like a lot of jazz these days is…, we’re playing this and take it or leave it. And we don’t care if you don’t like it. Maybe not that, but we hope you like it. But we’re not necessarily trying to get you to go along with it.

Right. Yeah.

That’s not really saying it right. But there used to be in jazz more of a, if we think of Dizzy Gillespie and his antics or Louis Armstrong or Cannonball Adderley, for example, they were all very good at engaging the audience in various ways so that they were brought along. There wasn’t that division.

Got it.

Whereas today it’s more like, oh, it’s a concert. It’s more of a concert feeling even in a club sometimes.

Interesting.

Because growing up as I did in the 60s when my mother was a singer in New York and my parents had separated and I would go there and spend time with her there, which is really how I learned everything and met and saw everyone at that really important period of time. People would…, they didn’t stop talking. No one was going around shushing them. And they would express their feelings. They would say, “yeah”, “work” or things like that.

Yeah, more natural and organic, right?

It was more natural. And that was also part of the group feeling where you felt the audience was engaged. The audience wasn’t heckling the musicians. They were participating.

Right.

And also people knew how to talk below the music so they didn’t disturb others. It was all very sophisticated. Anyway, you were about to say something.

I’m thankful to hear your statement around these topics. It’s really interesting. Last question, man. I’m really curious to know if you expect anything at all from musicians and more specifically from drummers that are coming up nowadays.

Do I expect anything? Drummers coming up now are incredible. And it’s a whole different way of playing than the way I play or learn to play coming out of a previous period. A lot of it tends to be the same, kind of the same information. But that was true of the Bebop period as well. So, the really important element that was expressed to me long ago was to find your own sound. It is to find your own sound and your own identity musically so that people can tell that it’s you. And that doesn’t mean something crazy necessarily or off the wall. But I’m hearing a lot of the same beats and the same sounds coming from the drums.

You would like to hear more like original material, right?

Well, material or…

Phrasing, sound?

Conception! Conception being the individuality that differentiates the player. But I mean, drummers now are, you know, it’s similar to athletics. You know, you think, oh, the four minute mile. That’s amazing. You know, no one can beat that. And so, you have incredible speed, dexterity, polyrhythmic awareness and execution. So, I have no complaints with the young drummers.

We still have hope, right? That’s cool.

It’s beyond hope. I’m amazed.

Yeah, that’s so nice. So nice, man. So nice to hear you. I really thank you for this conversation, Jeff. 

It’s my pleasure, yes.

I think it’s very interesting to hear you talk about your conception on music, about all these things you just shared with me and with us and with all our audience. So, thank you so much, man, for tuning in. We hope people can get to know you better. I feel like these little conversations try to, you know, let’s say, make the artist and the audience have a closer connection. And I felt it hearing you right now. So, I really thank you for that.

Let me tell you, if people want some more information about me, they can go to my severely in need of updating website. Just on a graphic level, a stylistic level, it needs work. But there’s a lot of information there.

Totally. We’re going to link your social media and your website to the article and to the interview for sure. So, people can get to know all your craft better. Because it’s an amazing work, what you do. Man, thank you so much again. And have a good day, have a good week, have a good summer, man. And I hope you enjoy. And take care, man. I hope we can see each other soon.

Absolutely. You too, man. Take care.

Hug, man, bye bye.

GREGORY HUTCHINSON

Interview

 

2

October, 2025

Interview: Gregory Hutchinson, one of the greatests drummers

Text: José Cabello

Photos: Antonio Porcar Cano 

During our time in Burghausen, we had the rare privilege of engaging in several conversations with one of jazz’s great icons: Gregory Hutchinson. What started as a casual morning coffee that seamlessly turned into an afternoon beer unfolded into a wide-ranging dialogue on music, life, politics, and the pressing social challenges of 2025. Few artists embody the spirit of jazz both on and off the stage as Hutchinson does, and his reflections revealed not only a masterful musician but also a keen observer of the world around him.

In the course of our conversations, Hutchinson also offered us a glimpse into his forthcoming project with Warner Music: Kind of Now, a tribute to the timeless Miles Davis and a clever play on words that recalls the iconic 1959 album Kind of Blue while highlighting the positive value of reinterpreting Davis’s music in today’s context. The album boasts an extraordinary lineup —Ambrose Akinmusire, Gerald Clayton, Ron Blake, Emmanuel Michael, Joe Sanders, and Jakob Bro— a roster that is already shaping today’s jazz landscape. With such a constellation of talent, the work promises to be one of the most anticipated releases of the year.

We invite you to discover more through our interview—an encounter that was as insightful as it was inspiring.

 

Listen to the PODCAST below

Gregory Hutchinson: What do you want to talk about today man?

In&OutJazz: I’m really thankful to have the opportunity to come over to just hang a little bit with you man…

You didn’t play last night, did you?

I didn’t man, I was feeling kind of tired…

I got you, I got you!

You know, my plane landed at around 9:30pm in Munich.

Oh! I see!

And then I drove all the way here like super-fast.

Wow, okay, I got you. So just came yesterday okay.

Yeah, yeah.

But tonight…, Let’s go!!

But yeah, I liked it very much, I could feel like the vibes and… The venue is very pretty.

Very nice man and a lot of students.

It sound sounds great!

Yeah, sound’s actually surprisingly great, yeah.

How did you feel the sound on the stage, on the bandstand?

It’s weird, because on stage it sounds one way and in the audience it sounds a different way. So on the on the bandstand, it makes you understand that you have to have these…, you have to be subtle at how you do things. So it was interesting when I saw my friends playing and I wasn’t playing, I could hear it and I knew I had to understand the room. Cause it got louder in the audience and I wanted to adapt to the acoustics of the venue…, but that’s experience.

As far as I can say it was and sounded beautiful.

Yeah, it was nice, very good time last night. More fun tonight.

So, man, In&OutJazz is surely honored to have you today. We’ve had busy months lately, and that’s good cause it means music’s still going around.

That’s good, that’s great. Are you producing festivals in Spain?

We wish so! It’ll come! For now, we’re just covering as a journal for the press.

Okay, I got you.

In fact yeah one of my main focuses during this year is that I’ve been trying to show to other festivals and other institutions in Europe how a lot of young musicians back there in Spain are really killing it.

Of course, yeah.

A bunch of them are in their 30s and they’re actually doing great stuff man.

So, they just need a chance, just need an opportunity to get out there. This is about opportunity for young people and it’s interesting when you go to Spain, when you go to all these different places, every place has a scene right. But the interesting thing that I sometimes find is like… Do these scenes connect? Do these people know about the people in Germany? Do they know about the people in France? That’s how it should be, and I mean, at a certain level it exists, but on the top level… The top guys, they know each other of course because they work with each other. But the level that’s right under that one and the beginning level…, that’s where there has to be the connection. That’s the only way it’s gonna work.

Yep. It’s interesting how you were saying you still have a lot to learn…

Oh yeah, come on man. Every day I watch a video of Tony or Elvin and I’m like “yeah, I still have to work hard”.

There are other cats from which one can learn, right.

No one’s going to be them, and it’s great. I wouldn’t want to hear another person sounding exactly like them. But they’re the people that we look to, that were our influences. But the point is, then, what do you do from there? How do you grow? How do you change? How do you recreate, develop and not become a copy of them? I don’t want to be a copy when I die, I don’t want them to say “oh yeah Greg sounded like so-and-so”. No, those are influences but you got to come up with your own sound and so that’s going to take a lifetime, that’s not going to happen… I’m 55, I’ve been trying to find that shit forever man. And sometimes I have periods where I’m like “okay, yeah, wow”. And then one day you wake up and you hit the drum and go “oh, shit here we go again”. So it’s always up and down, but I think that’s the beautiful challenge. Even though it’s up and down, how do you maintain the consistency?

There you go! I was about to ask you how do you find the balance between spiritual and human experience on one side and then the actual practice on the instrument on the other.

Some people are religious, some people aren’t. Some people are spiritual and some people aren’t. But, think about what you’re doing, you’re playing an instrument and you’re affecting people’s souls and when they come to see you… Watch it! You should do this sometimes: look at people when they come in and look at when they leave. There should be a definite change. It doesn’t have to be drastic, but it should be like a real feeling. For those moments that they’re listening to you for that hour and a half or whatever it is, they get to release…

Yeah, you should make a change…

Yeah, a change. Now the point is, when you do that, you’re absorbing all of their energies so if your music is not cool, if you’re not content or if you don’t have a purpose for what you’re doing, it’s… You can’t really do it! And it’s clear, so it might be that that’s what you have to do so there’s no disconnect. And when there is a disconnect, I feel it. For me like, when I’m not totally homed in, that doesn’t feel right. And I’m great because I’m so honest with myself. I’ll sit there and be like “this is fucked up”. But I won’t tell you, I won’t show you that because you don’t deserve to see that. You came to see me play.

I like how you’re realistic about it, because some people try to strengthen their technique or whatever, but they forget about life issues, and they don’t really find that connection. But, on the other side when something’s fucked up, when life is not really cheering but you still got to play that night…

You just said it, you just you just tapped into what it is. The point is this: we are entertainers so we gotta have a strong enough…, you gotta put that shit… It’s gonna come out in how you play, you can’t hide that. But you gotta realize the person coming to see you knows nothing about what your life is nor do they give a fuck…, they don’t. So, the point is, you gotta somehow overcome whatever you’re going through. And look, I played concerts and my mom died, I was on the road, my mom called me from the hospital, the doctors called me and told me my mom’s in the hospital and that she got stage 4 cancer. The doctor said “hey man, I’m gonna be real with you, it ain’t gonna happen”. And I knew it, I told her that this is how she was gonna die and that’s exactly how it happened. And I was in Europe, I was in London, so I flew back. And my mother was like “why’d you come back? You got work to do”. I was like, “I knew you’d say that so I came to be with you”. She’s like, “no, man, nope, you got work to do”. She’s like, “you want to do something for me? So, you need to keep doing what you’re doing. Cause if you don’t, that just gives you time to sit and think and ponder”. I said, “no, I won’t sit and think and ponder, we had this conversation about 20 years ago, so this is not, for me, this is not something that is a surprise. So no, I won’t sit and ponder. I will only wonder why the fuck you couldn’t stop smoking. And then I know the answer, because it’s an addiction”. Like, so with that said, we had a great life. There’s no need to feel sorry. And man, the moment when you’re born, in the next moment, the instant you come out, every moment after that is going towards the end. People don’t see it, people don’t get it. Like, they don’t understand.

Right, we can’t stand the idea of death, but it’s something as real as a having a beer.

So, to bring it back to your point, when you on that stage, your only obligation is to yourself and the people watching it…, and really more to them. We have a job, this is a job too. It’s a beautiful job, it’s the best one in the world, but you pay money to see me and you don’t want to see me sitting there all sad… That shit is not going to work.

Right, gotcha. I don’t want to get too deep into this topic, but I wanted to ask you how you are feeling about all situation in the US.

Oh, that’s easy, man. It sucks, it’s so sad. We can live it in two ways. People, that’s what they chose people. That’s what they wanted, that’s what they voted for. So, everything that happens after that… If you put your finger in a socket, guess what’s going to happen. You’re going to get executed. Well, don’t put your finger in the socket. So they voted for it, now they gotta deal with the consequences. The only problem is he can affect so many things…, he can undo centuries and years of common respect for European and Americans. So, we got to wait three more years for him to leave and then repair all of that shit. I live in Italy and every day you see the shit on the news and every day there’s some bullshit to deal with, but that just makes me have more of a resolve and purpose. So, there is famous saying: “the revolution will not be televised, the revolution is here”. People are afraid to fight. I’m not afraid to die. I’m not at all. Like this music is one aspect of my life, but there’s a whole other side that you have no clue about who I really am. And the other side is the rebel, the other side is like “I’m going to fight for what I believe in”. If it means I die, then I die. But I have two daughters, so I need to fight for their freedom. So, if it means that this is what we got to do, then there’s what we got to do. And everyone has to be that way though.

I’d rather have people with strong principals than having people that go from one side to the other, without any reasons, flowing as the wind blows.

Well, we needed Bernie Sanders this time, but Bernie didn’t want to do it. Bernie Sanders would have been great. There’s a few people that would have been great. If it was going to be a Republican, I wish it would have been John McCain, but he died. So yeah, he was the one that everybody loved. The Democrats love John McCain and the Republicans love John McCain. And then Trump, the first time he got in office, he said “oh, he’s a loser because he got captured”. No, he surrendered himself with his troops, he wasn’t captured. He went to be with his men. That’s a real leader. Cowards, that’s all I can say. And unfortunately, we got white America, man. Because if you look at it, you look at all those people up there, maybe one or two black people, just maybe. White America. So, what do you want? That’s what we know it is, it’s always been that, it’s going to stay that way. But I think we got to fight. Because it will get to the point where it fucks with the music. He already took over the Kennedy Center, he fired everybody from the Kennedy Center. What is he doing with the Kennedy Center? They were having good jazz, everything there. What is he going to do? He just wants to show you that he’s the boss.

Makes sense. So anyways, how are you feeling in Burghausen?

Oh, that’s great, man. I’ve been coming here since early 90s, I know this whole area, I’ve stayed here so many times. So, it’s great, man.

Have you come every year?

Not every year, no. But we used to come quite a bit. I played here with Ray Brown, with Roy Hargrove, with Diane Reeves, with everybody.

Has it always been in the Jazzkeller?

No, no, no. In the theaters. I think we might have played at the Jazzkeller with Ray Brown and Benny Green, I’m not sure, I think so, maybe, I feel like we did. But no, we used to play in the theaters. Jazzkeller is nice though. It’s like taking me back to when I was like in my early 20s. Like usually I would never come and play being an opening band for a session. But it’s fun because I get to play and work my shit out the whole week.

Yeah, and it’s beautiful. I feel like that makes it a really powerful experience for the audience to actually go there and see you guys. It’s like a real lesson, it’s beautiful, I really appreciate it.

You know, Lawrence has got some great music. We haven’t played too much. This is my second time playing with this particular group with him.

He just put out his record, right?

Yeah.

His first record, To The Surface.

Yeah…, music is music, we interact with each other, we have a good time.

Amazing, man. How’s the weather looking? It’s great, right?

Today looks nice, man, yeah, today’s awesome weather, man.

You’ve been happy to play with this trio?

Oh man, these guys are fun, man. Lawrence is Lawrence, and we have a great time playing. The music is fun, the vibe is cool. So yeah, we’re having a good time tonight. Yeah, Yasushi is such a bad motherfucker. So, well, I’m in heaven, man. I just get to tip the line on shit.

It’s great. Yeah. You’re staying in Rome, right?

Yeah, I live in Rome, still in Rome, still in Rome.

Is it going to be a crazy year this year for the…

Jubilee, it’s already started, it’s already started. It’s getting… Full of people, though.

Full of people.

Full of fucking people, though. It’s really ridiculous, yeah. But you know what? That’s good, man. I mean…

And the Pope’s almost passing out, man.

We’ll see what happens with that. That’s different. Yeah, I don’t know. It changes the whole thing, it wouldn’t be so Jubilee. I think he’s a regular guy. I think he’ll be all right. He just takes, you know, he’s just a little older. He’s got to recover. Yeah, he just needs to rest, man. That’s hard, being the fucking Pope.

Yeah, it has a lot of responsibility.

That’s a lot of responsibility. Yeah, it’s not easy.

I feel like it’s actually, it’s like a huge burden, spiritual burden.

Of course. It’s got to be, it can’t be easy. But, you know, people look to that and they believe in that,  what that is. And so the church, so, which does a lot.

His guide, yeah. Definitely. Yeah, it’s nice to actually, you know, when things are, you know, stumbling, it’s good to have a guy that says, hey, let’s do this. And maybe he’s mistaken, you know. It’s like in music. If no one gets takes the solo.

No, it’s like, what’s going on?

Yeah, there you go.

What’s happening?

Let’s leave.

Yeah, and I mean, the church is not perfect, but they do what they do. So that’s how I see it. Everything is, at the same time, you can believe, but you have to have your own fucking common sense too, like.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

You can’t read something and you have to understand how to interpret what you read. Yeah, not just tell someone telling you, okay, this is what it is. No, that’s the kind of the mistake with religion sometimes. People, they stop using their minds and they just say, “oh, this person is going to tell me what I should do with it”. No, you got to think for yourself also. Does that sound right to you? Does that work for you?

That’s right. So, are you studying or learning anything lately?

I’m studying and learning… Wow, that’s interesting.

I mean, I guess, plenty of repertoire, right?

Yeah, no, I just practice. I just kind of…

Like how’s your, like your daily or however it is, routine?

I’m online teaching most of the days. But then I have time to practice, so I practice.

How do you practice? Do you just go and improvise and stuff?

No, I have, it’s always a routine. You don’t get better, you don’t get good if you just go and just do shit. No, you got to have a focus on what you’re trying to learn and what you’re trying to get down. So, every day is geared on something when I’m trying to go towards. And then I take periods where I just, I don’t touch the drums until I have to play. Cause I just want to think about what I’m trying to pin down.

You got to be fresh.

Yeah, yeah. So, when you get to a certain point, you understand what you need to do. Like, you know, you’re 20s, it’s the “I” period of playing music. And younger than that too. And then later on it becomes the “we” period. So, you understand what you need to do to get better.

Oh yeah. Is it great to be in the European scene? Do you like it? Or did you miss the American one…

No, I like the European scene, this is super cool. I go out and I play with people that I really like. So, there’s some European guys that I play with a lot. And then a lot of times I just stay and I work with the guys I know that I like to play with. But the European scene is great though. So many challenging musicians everywhere, in France and Germany, all over. So, it’s nice to meet them and experience them and get a chance to play with them.

Totally. I was, uh, wondering if, if you were, uh, writing any music. Are you?

Always! Next record I’m doing though is a tribute to Miles Davis.

Oh, shit.

Um, from a drummer’s perspective. So, we’re going to do that.

How much of his whole career are you covering? The whole shit?

From the beginning to electric stuff, stopping at like, probably stopping at the Tutu period, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

Everything before, like On the Corner, that whole period, which leads to that. So yeah, we’re going to do it all. So, I’m excited about that because it’s different.

Are you making a lot of arrangements to that?

Yeah. And playing very rare tunes that people don’t usually play.

Nice. Trying to rescue some of the, uh, good material by Miles, right?

Oh, yeah. I think people know it. They just, they just don’t really play it that much, you know? So, I think if you have a new and fresh perspective on it, it’ll make it fun. I mean, of course we can’t, I can’t recreate Tony, I can’t recreate Jack, I can’t recreate Philly or Jimmy Cobb, but we have a different, a different way on, a different view on how to do it. So that’s the next thing for Warner. We’re going to do that in June.

Recording, you mean?

Yeah, and I have the record already out on Warner Music called The Bang. So that’s already out, which is a different kind of record altogether.

Yeah.

And then we just keep moving, man. Like, you got to keep evolving.

Oh, yeah.

We’ll see what’s next. You know, younger cats are up playing now. So, it keeps me fresh in all my toes. Like, okay, you know, I can look to my young friends playing the instrument and be inspired. I think that’s the number one, you know, the inspiration.

Yeah, that’s one of the things I’ve always been thankful for in the jazz world. Whatever that word means, you know?

Yeah, exactly.

But, you know, I feel like it’s something real pretty to feel like everyone looks after the other, you know?

Oh, yeah.

No matter the age.

That’s how the music was built, you know?

Exactly.

No matter the age or the race.

It’s, you know, it’s a community experience. And I feel like nowadays, you see the world all screwed up.

Oh, yeah, jazz is different, we’re still good here.

There you go. I feel like this kind of community experience, this kind of relationships with each other are saving the world.

Oh, yeah. If more people were like us, everything would be cool. It’s that simple, right? Think about it. If the world was more like jazz musicians, it would be so cool, man. Like, we don’t stress on those kind of things. We just try to play the right changes on the right tune. That’s our big right. Imagine if that was the stress of the world. Oh man!

That’s funny.

What were my changes on this tune… hahaha

I remember asking one of the, maybe you know him, it’s an older drummer from Spain. He’s called Mark Miralta.

Older. It’s funny you say that. Yeah, he was my student for a while.

And he is, I remember talking to him and he was like, I asked him, “do you ever feel, you know, nervous or stressed on stage?” And he was like, “yo, it’s when I’m off the stage when I feel stressed and nervous is, you know, you got to be worried about, the car rental, the apartment, everything else, and on the stage, he said, that’s where I feel free”.

He’s right. That’s one place where the other shit doesn’t exist. We go to stage, and it’s like, oh, finally, like the day is like, all the other shit that we got to deal with all day finally. Oh, God. Yes. Thank you. That’s how I see it. The same way. Exactly. When we hit the stage, it’s peaceful.

Have you ever had a love and hate relationship with the stage or has it always been loving?

I love it. The stage is where you prove yourself. You can practice in the room all day. That doesn’t mean anything. When the people in front of you and the lights come on, what do you do then? And it’s where it really counts, you know. So, I love it. I love the stage. That’s the best part of the day. He’s right. Everything else is like leading up to that, like, fuck, just give me, excuse me, just give me to the stage, man. I don’t talk to people. I just want to go play. In those moments that you’re sitting there with other people on stage doing what you love, nothing beats that. Nothing beats that.

That’s great, man.

That’s the best, the best thing, you know.

I got to confess. I remember. When I was back in school, I remember one of the first videos I saw in YouTube, in order to actually master the brush technique was you, man.

Oh, man.

There’s a whole master class where you are teaching brushes.

I would send you back. I would send you to Clayton Cameron, Philly Joe, Kenny Washington.

Oh, yeah, Clayton Cameron, man.

I’m good, but those guys are masters. If you want to really get it, the Papa Joe, actually. Oh. That would be my first answer. Oh, go listen to Papa Joe because that’s a brush master.

It’s beautiful how you can follow the line and you get to the really beginnings, you know, of this music.

I think you have to.

That’s one of the best, uh, feelings of, of this music. The tradition is really, uh, uh, good and, and well-treated value, you know, whereas in other areas…

Well, think about it. If you want to become a doctor, you have to study case history. You have to, if you want to become a lawyer, you have to know the law, case history. So, we’re no different. You have to know what came before, what set the precedent for you to do what you do now. So, yeah, it’s, it’s really like, it’s comparable to everything else that happens in the world. You have to know the history of what you’re trying to do. You can’t just come into it “okay, I’ll do it”. No, it doesn’t work that way. Well, also sound is sound. You sound like you’ve only listened to one period. So yeah, I think that you got to study this whole thing. Listening to the music is just as important as playing.

Oh yeah, totally.

So, if you don’t know any tools or you don’t know the vocabulary, how the fuck are you going to play? You can’t play.

In fact, I would say, I mean, of course it’s, it’s fun to play, but when you find yourself having fun listening, that’s one of the best experiences, you know, as a musician.

You just enjoy it as a fan.

Yeah. I mean, you’re a musician and stuff, but, but when you really have time and take time to listen to a record from the beginning to the end…

Which a lot of people don’t do it anymore.

You know, try to focus on the music. Just as when, when you read a book, you know, you cannot be, you know, chatting on iMessage or whatever while you read a book.

No, you read the book. Exactly. Same thing. Focus, focus and discipline.

Yeah.

You want to be a great musician, you need those two things. You don’t have that, you’re lost.

Does the word contemplation resonate with you?

Not really. Why?

I feel like it’s a word that may define that experience of actually paying attention to something with a will of capturing its essence, you know, contemplation. It’s like when you go up a hill or up a mountain and you try to contemplate the whole landscape.

Yeah.

You’re trying to, you’re trying to go deep, further beyond the “oh, this is pretty”, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

Trying to actually like capture the essence, right?

Yeah

I feel like we need more contemplation and, and, and the, and nowadays, you know, because people are used to, you know, 15 second reels, you know.

Yeah, they, they’re attention span is so short, man. It’s like people…, they want it now and that’s it.

And also weakens the memorizing muscle, you know?

Yeah. If you just, like I said, if you don’t think about it in terms of work and you just listen as a fan, you get all of that stuff. When you listen to something or when you do something because you really love to do it, you get better at it. When you do it only because you think you need to do it to get better. No. Two different things.

Right.

Enjoying listening to music and learning. But just listening is awesome. Listening to music and saying, “oh, I gotta learn these tools”. You’ll never, you’ll never be, never be good because the mindset is wrong. You’re not a fan. You’re a student still. And as a student, but not a student the same way I’m like, there’s different levels of being a student. You’re a student on the level of, you’re still trying to understand what’s going on as opposed to like, okay, I love what I’m listening, what I’ve been hearing. And so, yeah, I’m really engulfed in it. Like, I really understand this language. And your whole, your whole way of thinking changes once you do that. It really does.

Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. I feel like I’m very thankful for, for everything you said, man.

Oh no, man.

It’s great. I don’t want to steal more time from you, man.

No, it’s all good, man. I’m glad I can help you, brother.

I’d like to, to hand you out last question, maybe. And I’ll let you be calm and sweet. Um, it’s a real fast question. I’d like to know four different recommendations from you. Food, type of food that you like.

Um, well, since I live in Italy now, I don’t eat a lot of pasta. Fish, trying to stay away from fried foods so much. But fish, um.

That’s a thing now.

Yeah. I mean, I eat some beef and some chicken. I don’t eat pork. I just need to stop drinking so much. That’s my only problem. So, after that, but it’s difficult when you’re on the road because you have to eat what’s really where you are in the future.

Yeah.

So yeah, you gotta adapt, but I don’t eat pork anywhere. So that’s the only thing that I need to, you know, fix.

Nice. What would a book recommendation be? If there’s any.

 

Oh, there’s a great book about the psychology of drumming. Oh, beautiful. You should get that. I’ll send you a link to it. Yeah, sure. You can get it on Amazon. It’s great. So that would be one: The Psychology of Drumming.

Awesome. What about a movie?

Movie or TV series? The TV series I’ve been watching is Severance and White Lotus. So Severance is really good. If you watch this, it’ll really.

Yeah, it develops your mind?

Really develop. Yeah. It’s really about the two sides that we all have now in our soul. Our innie and our outie. Greatly done by Ben Stiller. He was a great comedian. But this series is so killing. And it’s the final of the second season. That’s just amazing. So, you got to go back. It’s on Apple TV. Go watch it. It’s really, it’ll change the way you think about a lot of shit. Yeah.

That’s nice. Nice bet. Yeah. And at last, what would a record recommendation be?

Oh, that’s a hard one.

It can be you in it or not.

Not me. Well, a record, a recommendation of albums. I mean, you could, I would say coming from a drummer standpoint or if it was coming from a drummer standpoint, I say, you know, Art Blakey, Caravan, of course, Roy Haynes, Out of the Afternoon, Papa Joe Jones, The Trio Records, Philly Joe, any record, Sony’s records, solo records. And then the stuff with the Quintet, of courde. Max Roach, everything, Deeds, Not Words. And then, yeah. I mean, Kenny Clark was like, from a drummer standpoint, you got to go through the history. Sid Catlett, Baby Dodds, Chick Webb, Gene Krupa, Buddy Rich. Everybody, you know. And only when you finish that will you arrive at who you want to be. That’s the only way. That’s the only way. And so, that’s why I still keep doing what I’m doing because I’m still trying to arrive at, okay, what the fuck am I doing, you know.

And it’s cool. Like, it gives hope to people that come after you, you know.

Oh, man. We have to because the music needs us. The music is bigger than all of us. So, the music needs to survive. So, I was fortunate to have good people who taught me. If I don’t pass that on, then that’s really a bad thing. So, I need to do the same thing, you know. So, that’s what we do. That’s why we sit here and talk. That’s what we do. We pass it on. And make sure everyone…

Can hear about it at least.

And then in your own time, you’ll come to your own understanding and love of it. I can’t make you have that. Only thing I can do is open the door. After that, you got to take that torch and then you got to do it for somebody else.

There you go.

That’s it. This is what’s the movie called? Was Pass It Forward? Pay it forward. Pay it forward. That’s all we do. That’s what music is. We just keep paying it forward to the next generation, to the next generation, next generation, next generation, next generation. That’s it.

Well, thank you.

Thank you, man.

It’s been a pleasure, man. I’ll see you tonight again, I guess.

For sure, man, I got your beer, don’t worry about it, man. It’s on me.